UPDATE: Stephenson canceled the committee meeting this morning because he wanted to work on changes to the bill. He still threw out his claim this bill is not a voucher. See my budget explanation below to see what you think. Also stay tuned for when the bill comes back up for a committee hearing in the next week or so. Will it be scheduled on a Monday morning at 8:00 to make it harder for the public to attend?
SB 151, Student Opportunity Scholarships, by Howard Stephenson, will be debated in the Senate Education Committee today, Tuesday, Feb. 4,at 4:00 pm. Click on the legislature's website, scroll down to the Upcoming Events section, and you should be able to click on the Live Now option at 4:00 to listen live to the committee hearing. (The committees often start a few minutes late--keep refreshing the page if it's not up right at 4:00. If you can't find it, post a cry for help on Twitter with the hashtag #uted, and the State School Board's account, @UTPublicEd will usually reply with a direct link. I expect both the live committee room and the online following will be packed, so I have some worries about something going wrong with the feed, but the front page links have been working for me after a bad first week of the new website.)
This is a new voucher bill "limited" to only some students. A lot of well-off families can get a $5500 school voucher if their kid scored below proficient on even one of four state tests, if their school has gotten an F grade for two years under Utah's new law (I had some info wrong about this provision in some tweets Saturday), or if a young student is behind in reading at all.
Some quick (for me) and important points to think about:
1. All voucher proposals are framed disingenuously by misrepresenting school funding. OK, this point ended up not quick. But it's the most important. I'll be posting further on this. I think many people could benefit from this hopefully easy-to-understand explanation of school funding. Consider forwarding this to others and asking questions about this to your legislators or in committee meetings.
Here is a very long and chewy document detailing the education funding for the state of Utah for last school year and the current school year. I'll refer to some specific pages shortly. The state spends most of our state income tax on K-12 public education. (A very significant portion of income tax funds is also spent on our higher ed. system) The legislature designates a "WPU" or Weighted Pupil Unit amount each year. The districts receive that amount of funding from state income taxes per student, with extra WPU's for special ed. students, administration, extra transportation money for small, rural schools, and some other programs. This is NOT some specific amount of money it takes to educate one child or a "marginal cost" per student coming and going from the school. It is a blunt, fair way to evenly distribute money to the state's districts on a per student basis. These distributed WPU's to each district are called "Above the line" funding and are summarized on page 8 of the document.
On pages 9 and 10 of the document, it summarizes further state income tax funds sent out as "below the line" funding for a variety of purposes such as transportation, ELL students, gifted students, students in custody, library books and equipment, school nurses, dual immersion language programs, classroom supplies, and the Beverly Taylor Sorenson Arts Program. Notice these are not sent out on a per student basis. They are lump sums. That nurse, art instructor, or amount of money for classroom supplies has to stretch to cover however many students show up. (Different programs are divided differently, some to pilot schools, some proportionally. And the legislature changes the total amount of "below the line" funding every year as they debate specific programs.)
Therefore, neither type of funding, "above the line" or "below the line," represents a marginal savings for an individual school. If a student switches to a private school, the state will still send the same amount of "below the line" funding that year to the districts. The state will keep one WPU (designated as $2816 this year) in the general education fund for that student. So the total savings for a student moving out or switching to a private school = Near $0 for a local school or district. One WPU of $2816 for the state education fund from income tax. If that student is a special education student, some complicated formula will save the state some more of that money. The local school wouldn't cut concrete costs much, but would save in faculty and staff time with the various meetings and paperwork. The vast majority of students who were Below Proficient on one test or attend what will be labeled as "F" schools are not special ed. and will only save one WPU.
This is because almost every cost at a school or district is a fixed cost. If one student enrolls or moves out of a school, the only cost difference for that school is some paper. The teachers, computers, library books, copy machines, training sessions, utilities, buses, bond payments, etc. do not change. When a school loses 30-40 students, depending on the district and whether it's an elementary or secondary school, they lose a teacher. 30 * $2,816 = $84,480. 40 * $2816 = $112,640. That more than covers the cost to pay that teacher and there is no net gain to the district from these changes.
Your child's district and school get funded from various other sources as well. Local district funds via property taxes are voted on and approved by the residents of that district in LUMP SUM amounts for school programs, including maintenance and upkeep. No local district funds are collected or spent on a per student basis.The funds serve hundreds of students simultaneously in large fixed costs. Your student does not receive a pro-rated portion of the janitor's time. See Heading II Local Revenue on pg. 11 of the funding document. The state also collects some property tax and distributes it in lump sums in that orange box about leeways. (This fact is also important in understanding the claims that districts are funding "phantom students" and should give up this locally collected money to charter schools with no publicly elected governing bodies.) Federal funds largely pay for lunches at all schools and for lots of extra help in Title I schools.
Therefore, representing a $5,500 voucher as a savings to schools is fundamentally dishonest. The schools and districts basically save nothing, and the state fund saves one WPU of less than $3,000 dollars. Via the tax-credit-converted-to-scholarship-in-order-to-claim-it's-not-a-voucher, the private school actually receives substantially more public money than a public school for enrolling the same student.
1B. Many articles comparing states will lump all of that income tax money together, above the line and below the line, the property tax whether voted on and collected by the state or district, and then divide that total by the number of students in the state. That gives a number of just under $5400 the state spends per student. That raw number is semi-useful for blunt comparisons with other states when comparing funding effort, but it doesn't represent a marginal cost for educating each individual student as I've shown. And it gets worse. Senator Stephenson and his lobbying organization, the Utah Taxpayer's Association, take that larger total and add the small amount of state income tax spent as capital funds to build new facilities, the huge construction bonds voted on by constituents of local districts specifically for building new schools (such as the $200 million dollar bond approved by Alpine District voters recently), and even sometimes count the federal funds specifically earmarked to meals and specific Title I schools, and count that as total funding as well because "it's all taxes." Dividing that larger total by the number of students gives them a per student funding number of $7,000 or $8,000 per student. They then claim this shows that a $5,500 voucher actually saves the state money.
Think about what they're doing. The argument boils down to claiming that if a student in St. George leave public school and takes a $5,500 voucher to attend private school, money is incrementally saved on WPU's statewide, construction of elementary schools in Eagle Mountain, and school lunches in Logan. It willfully misrepresents that number as actual savings to schools. In this case, the state saves one $2,816 WPU from the general education fund that they don't send to Washington School District for that student, while giving out a tax credit of $5,500 from that same fund. Stephenson will use this false representation of total taxes spent on schools today in committee. Listen and understand. Post questions here if you have any, and I will do my best to answer them within a day or two.
I think most members of the public have not researched the annoying intricacies of public education funding and are largely at the mercy of the claims of others about the impacts of vouchers and other funding proposals. So save that 99-page document and study up. I don't understand much of it still and probably flubbed a detail in my explanation, but my main point about the allocation of education funds is verifiably true.
I know Senator Stephenson and other members of the legislature understand very well the reality of how these funds are collected and distributed. I feel they purposely frame their arguments with misleading statistics in order to advance their ideological goals rather than help the public make informed decisions or represent their constituents. These misrepresentations of school districts wasting thousands of dollars per student are a large part of the lack of trust most educators feel toward the legislature as they struggle with 30+ students in their classrooms.
2. The program would allow up to $5,000,000 to be taken each year out of the general education fund via credits for donations to private school scholarship organizations.
3. Senator Stephenson admitted at the Utah Taxpayer's Association's pre-legislative conference (my notes: they're tough to read sometimes. Scroll down to Stephenson's comments about 2/3 of the way down) that most private schools will not accept a student who scores below grade level or is not proficient in English. He claims that the Catholic schools are eager to take these students. I would love to hear someone from that system confirm that sentiment. He also doesn't say how much capacity remains in those schools statewide. I think I'm right in saying there is a waiting list to enroll in both Judge Memorial and Juan Diego high schools. I am not familiar with the amount of Catholic elementary and middle schools in the state. Would a generous estimate be that 200-300 additional voucher students could enroll?
Stephenson says these vouchers would create a market for private schools focused on low-achieving students, so new quality schools would quickly spring up to better serve those students. (At $5500 a pop with no mandated programs, he's right that some schools would take that money.)
4. There will be a very large number of students who qualify for the voucher-- NOT just 2 or 3 difficult students from a class. Off the top of my head, I would estimate at least 100-200 students of the 1200 at my school received at least one state test score below proficient last year. (Schools with more affluent demographics will have fewer students, some Title I schools would have over 50% with at least one score below proficient.) Each of those students who take a voucher represent up to a $2,684 loss to education funding ($5,500 - $2,816 = $2,684.)
5. The school grading bill is brand new and based on those same test scores. Many Title I schools will get F's based on those standards. No fancy program will "solve" the difficulties of educating all struggling students. Senator Stephenson is on the record as wanting to "dismantle" and privatize those schools that the school grading program sets up for F's. This voucher bill would make 100% of the students at those schools eligible for vouchers, thus thousands of potential $2,684 losses. Stephenson is pursuing his stated goal through indirect means.
There's more to say, but it will have to wait.
.
Tuesday, February 7, 2012
Monday, February 6, 2012
USOE details huge list of 35 education related "Boxcar" bills
"Boxcar" bills are potential bills that are named and numbered by a certain deadline (Feb. 4 this year by the looks of it), but have no content publicly available besides that name and number. The actual text and effects of the bill remain secret until the legislator decides to make them available to the public. Once they are available to the public for 24 hours, they can be started in the bill process normally--being assigned to a committee and progressing through committee and floor votes in both houses of the legislature. OR...a bill can be passed "under suspension of the rules," thus skipping committee hearings with pesky questions from the public and rushing to the front of the line to be considered on the floor. for example, HB477, the GRAMA bill, controversially rushed from unveiling of text through two easy votes in the Senate and House to the governor's office in only a few days.
Bob Bernick wrote an excellent commentary on the subject at the end of November. At that time, 60% of the proposed legislation was still secret. On Feb. 4, as near as I can tell, about 200 House bills, resolutions, and rules changes dropped into the system along with over 110 Senate bills, concurrent resolutions, and joint resolutions. All but one or two of the House bills numbered from HB 330 to HB 510 read "2/4/2012 Bill Numbered by Title Without any Substance" as of late tonight, February 6. The Senate, which is about 1/3 the size of the House, reads the same for all but one or two bills from about SB 173 to SB 279, plus a bunch of the resolutions. The list of bills by number is here. You can check the Bill Status links on each bill, and see that designation on Feb. 4, 2012, even later when the text of the bill gets added.
Why would a transparency loving legislature maintain at least 30% of its proposed legislation secret two full weeks into the session? Bernick said in the article above that "sources inside the Legislature tell UtahPolicy that the percent of “protected” bills is increasing, as legislators learn, from experience and talking to colleagues, that one way to avoid unnecessary attention in this day of emails, texts, and other instant communications, is to keep what could end up as a controversial bill under wraps."
As Joe Pyrah commented about boxcar bills a couple of years ago when he was still a reporter: "They know DAMN well what will go into those bills."
I posted a list of ominous sounding Boxcar bills with commentary last year, and I am thankful the USOE blog beat me to it this year with a long list of education-related Boxcar bills with very uncontroversial sounding names such as: HB371 Tuition Reimbursement for Private Education — Rep. Keith Grover, HB375 Improving Student Academic Learning in Schools — Rep. Merlynn Newbold, SB67 Teacher Effectiveness and Outcomes Based Compensation — Sen. Stuart Adams, SB73 Extended School Calendar Incentives — Sen. Howard Stephenson, and SB223 Pledge of Allegiance Reinforcement Act — Sen. Aaron Osmond. (I've loved your rational tone on education so far Sen. Osmond...but really?!)
At least those boxcars are honest and descriptive. The vague bill titles are even scarier, like: HB331 School Board Election Provisions — Rep. Jim Nielson, HB392 Charter School Funding Revisions — Rep. Stephen Sandstrom, HB430 Education Program Funding Amendments — Rep. Bradley Last, SB175 School Grading Amendments — Sen. Wayne Niederhauser, SB178 Statewide Online Education Program Amendments — Sen. Howard Stephenson, and SB213 Charter School Enrollment — Sen. Howard Stephenson. they could possibly be minor technical alterations, but they are more likely crucial changes disguised in bland language. As I documented in my Boxcar bill post last year, Senator Stephenson especially has repeatedly sprung large changes in the waning days of the legislature.
Sign up for updates of status changes on any bills you want at the bottom of the webpage for each individual bill. Let others know what is happening. It's probably not good.
Bob Bernick wrote an excellent commentary on the subject at the end of November. At that time, 60% of the proposed legislation was still secret. On Feb. 4, as near as I can tell, about 200 House bills, resolutions, and rules changes dropped into the system along with over 110 Senate bills, concurrent resolutions, and joint resolutions. All but one or two of the House bills numbered from HB 330 to HB 510 read "2/4/2012 Bill Numbered by Title Without any Substance" as of late tonight, February 6. The Senate, which is about 1/3 the size of the House, reads the same for all but one or two bills from about SB 173 to SB 279, plus a bunch of the resolutions. The list of bills by number is here. You can check the Bill Status links on each bill, and see that designation on Feb. 4, 2012, even later when the text of the bill gets added.
Why would a transparency loving legislature maintain at least 30% of its proposed legislation secret two full weeks into the session? Bernick said in the article above that "sources inside the Legislature tell UtahPolicy that the percent of “protected” bills is increasing, as legislators learn, from experience and talking to colleagues, that one way to avoid unnecessary attention in this day of emails, texts, and other instant communications, is to keep what could end up as a controversial bill under wraps."
As Joe Pyrah commented about boxcar bills a couple of years ago when he was still a reporter: "They know DAMN well what will go into those bills."
I posted a list of ominous sounding Boxcar bills with commentary last year, and I am thankful the USOE blog beat me to it this year with a long list of education-related Boxcar bills with very uncontroversial sounding names such as: HB371 Tuition Reimbursement for Private Education — Rep. Keith Grover, HB375 Improving Student Academic Learning in Schools — Rep. Merlynn Newbold, SB67 Teacher Effectiveness and Outcomes Based Compensation — Sen. Stuart Adams, SB73 Extended School Calendar Incentives — Sen. Howard Stephenson, and SB223 Pledge of Allegiance Reinforcement Act — Sen. Aaron Osmond. (I've loved your rational tone on education so far Sen. Osmond...but really?!)
At least those boxcars are honest and descriptive. The vague bill titles are even scarier, like: HB331 School Board Election Provisions — Rep. Jim Nielson, HB392 Charter School Funding Revisions — Rep. Stephen Sandstrom, HB430 Education Program Funding Amendments — Rep. Bradley Last, SB175 School Grading Amendments — Sen. Wayne Niederhauser, SB178 Statewide Online Education Program Amendments — Sen. Howard Stephenson, and SB213 Charter School Enrollment — Sen. Howard Stephenson. they could possibly be minor technical alterations, but they are more likely crucial changes disguised in bland language. As I documented in my Boxcar bill post last year, Senator Stephenson especially has repeatedly sprung large changes in the waning days of the legislature.
Sign up for updates of status changes on any bills you want at the bottom of the webpage for each individual bill. Let others know what is happening. It's probably not good.
Sunday, January 22, 2012
Weird Waterford software and Imagine Learning software connection. Who's getting state contracts?
1. I posted extensively a few years ago about when the failed UPSTART bill for free laptops for preschoolers, or "Welfare for Waterford" bill was dishonestly lumped into an omnibus bill of dubious constitutionality. http://utahedu.blogspot.com/2008/10/maybe-worst-bill-in-education-omnibus.html
It passed, and then Waterford Institute received a whole bunch of money after a Request For Proposals was specifically tailored to obtain their sevices. I would love some very solidly documented data on the demographics, locations, and initial Reading Scores of the students receiving these laptops. Then I would like the follow-up scores, and a comparison of the free laptop kids with the other students at their respective schools. Howard Stephenson, the omnibus sponsor, is all about accountability. Is this data available?
2. I posted once last year about how a local software company got a statewide contract (a mysterious statewide contract--I have never been able to track down where, when, and why it was granted) to provide software to help students learn English after making $12,000 in campaign donations to prominent local Republican legislators and the governor.
http://utahedu.blogspot.com/2010/08/local-educational-software-company-gets.html
Is there data available on how many schools used this software for how many students and how much they paid? What about comparable before and after scores? The program looks awesome, but do we know?
3. The Daily Herald printed a glowing profile of Imagine Learning today.
There were a few paragraphs profiling Susan Praetor, the Imagine Learning CEO, and she was a Vice President at Waterford Institute for 11 years. She specifically was the head of the team that developed the Waterford Software being used on the laptops for preschoolers. It's been years, but now she's the CEO who gets a state contract the year after Waterford and after donating $12,000 from her current company to influential politicians.
That is a really weird coincidence.
4. The Beverly Taylor Sorenson arts program was also part of that 2008 omnibus bill, but was one of the about-to-pass bills held hostage for the failed bills. The appropriated money got shaved by 1/3 during the recession, but this specifically designated program survived the hundreds of millions of dollars in cuts. The program seems great, both in terms of effective learning and in enriching school for kids when so much is being sacrificed for literacy and math test scores these days. Beverly Taylor Sorenson seems like a powerful advocate for the arts and an extremely generous philanthropist. I would love for my children to participate in her program integrating arts and other academic subjects. She was also the top political donor in the state in the 2010 election cycle.
The impressive program needs $4 million in new funding for next school year. What do you bet she gets it?
5. Initial conclusion: It doesn't appear bad programs are getting funded because of political contributions.
However, typically, education money from the state is sent to local districts to make spending decisions at the local level according to need. A lot of good programs exist to meet a lot of important needs, and not every company gets the contracts they desire.
It does appear that the key to getting your particular good program singled out for a contract and funded at the state level, before being sent on to districts, is to make significant financial contributions to local politicians and/or hire an influential lobbyist.
What do you think?
.
It passed, and then Waterford Institute received a whole bunch of money after a Request For Proposals was specifically tailored to obtain their sevices. I would love some very solidly documented data on the demographics, locations, and initial Reading Scores of the students receiving these laptops. Then I would like the follow-up scores, and a comparison of the free laptop kids with the other students at their respective schools. Howard Stephenson, the omnibus sponsor, is all about accountability. Is this data available?
2. I posted once last year about how a local software company got a statewide contract (a mysterious statewide contract--I have never been able to track down where, when, and why it was granted) to provide software to help students learn English after making $12,000 in campaign donations to prominent local Republican legislators and the governor.
http://utahedu.blogspot.com/2010/08/local-educational-software-company-gets.html
Is there data available on how many schools used this software for how many students and how much they paid? What about comparable before and after scores? The program looks awesome, but do we know?
3. The Daily Herald printed a glowing profile of Imagine Learning today.
There were a few paragraphs profiling Susan Praetor, the Imagine Learning CEO, and she was a Vice President at Waterford Institute for 11 years. She specifically was the head of the team that developed the Waterford Software being used on the laptops for preschoolers. It's been years, but now she's the CEO who gets a state contract the year after Waterford and after donating $12,000 from her current company to influential politicians.
That is a really weird coincidence.
4. The Beverly Taylor Sorenson arts program was also part of that 2008 omnibus bill, but was one of the about-to-pass bills held hostage for the failed bills. The appropriated money got shaved by 1/3 during the recession, but this specifically designated program survived the hundreds of millions of dollars in cuts. The program seems great, both in terms of effective learning and in enriching school for kids when so much is being sacrificed for literacy and math test scores these days. Beverly Taylor Sorenson seems like a powerful advocate for the arts and an extremely generous philanthropist. I would love for my children to participate in her program integrating arts and other academic subjects. She was also the top political donor in the state in the 2010 election cycle.
The impressive program needs $4 million in new funding for next school year. What do you bet she gets it?
5. Initial conclusion: It doesn't appear bad programs are getting funded because of political contributions.
However, typically, education money from the state is sent to local districts to make spending decisions at the local level according to need. A lot of good programs exist to meet a lot of important needs, and not every company gets the contracts they desire.
It does appear that the key to getting your particular good program singled out for a contract and funded at the state level, before being sent on to districts, is to make significant financial contributions to local politicians and/or hire an influential lobbyist.
What do you think?
.
Thursday, January 19, 2012
Notes from the Utah Taxpayer's Association's pre-legislative conference
I attended the mostly informative and interesting Utah Taxpayer's Association's pre-legislative conference this morning in the Senate Building. We met in the nice Room 210 with 3 large screens for the various powerpoints we saw. It was less than half full. I counted during the private golf presentations, and there were about 82 people in the room, with a couple coming in and out from the hallway. That is counting 4 people from 2 companies looking to manage or buy government golf courses, 2 ALEC people here for a press conference afterwards, a number of legislators who were presenting bills, charter school people - Chris Bleak who presented, Carolyn Sharette, Steve, Sheldon Killpack who presented - and a bunch of guys in suits. People left after presenting and others entered. The crowd may have topped out at 90 people.
I think there were fewer than 10 "regular" members of the public in attendance counting myself, and the rest were lobbyist/insider types there for work and looking out for their respective interests. For example, the nice gentleman I sat next to ended up being a policy director for the UEA, but I Googled his name right at the end and didn't get a chance to really talk to him. Another indicator of who the meeting was really about was the list of "sponsors" on the back of the agenda who apparently paid for the handouts, the muffins and juice at the door, and probably a room fee. (Meetings of affluent lobbying groups apparently have sponsors.) They were: Billy Casper Golf, a management firm who presented for 15 min. about allowing them to run government golf courses while causing other bills to be pushed off of the agenda, Red Leaf Resources, an oil shale firm who wants favorable laws, 2 companies wanting to manage or buy our state parks: American Land and Leisure and Recreation Resource Management, Questar Gas, and Rio Tinto--both of whom have various tax, regulation, and clean air laws frequently before the legislature. But they of course did this out of the goodness of their hearts, wanting nothing in return; and our legislators would never be influenced by this, even if these companies are in fact paying clients of Senator Stephenson and the Utah Taxpayer's Association. (A law firm specializing in business litigation, and environmental and mining laws, Parsons, Behle, and Latimer, "sponsored" the 2012 Fast Tax pamphlet which is actually a very cool summary of government taxes, fees, and revenue generators in Utah. But they don't want any influence. It is just part of their charitable outreach for politicians with printing needs.)
What citizen could be cynical about conflicts of interest in our state legislature? Conflicts of interest are products of the liberal media, unless we are talking about Barney Frank or Newt Gingrich. But the real point is to never let the Utah Taxpayer's Association's euphemistic name and rhetoric mask the fact that the group is really just a lobbying firm with secret clients that makes a handsome living for its few employees, chief among them longtime State Senator Howard Stephenson. The organization and its aims are not about regular citizens; it exists purely to lobby for laws that financially benefit its secret clients. If Senator Stephenson stepped down from his influential position in the legislature tomorrow, the Association's revenues would immediately plummet.
The notes are long and fairly rushed as it was hard to keep up sometimes. Royce Van Tassell, 2nd-in-command at the Taxpayer's Association under Stephenson, was the emcee of the event. He frequently gave short introductions of the speakers and/or bills. I often wrote the presenter's name, and then wrote VT for Van Tassell, followed by his introductory comment. Hopefully, it's not too confusing. [Comments in brackets are my own thoughts about what I am summarizing.] I indicate questions with a ? followed by the question. Assume answers come from the presenter.
A traffic jam on I-15 made me 10 min. late and I only caught the last bit of Speaker Lockhart's remarks.
My notes:
Sitting by Jay Blain. Googled him right at the end and he is a UEA bigwig. I wish I had known and talked to him a little more.
Lockhart and Waddoups - Some issue will pop up. Maybe national popular vote says Waddoups.
9:19 Dougall – New revenue worst of times b/c of many requests.
1-time money: $128 million 49 gen 79 in education fund
Ongoing revenue: $280 million, 91 general, 188 in ed fund
Immediate needs:
Structural deficit 52 mill
Public ed growth 41 mill
Medicaid 68 , 44 one-time
Other Medicaid 28 M, 18 M 1-time
Legal 14 mill 1-time
Bldg myce 53 mill
1%WPU increase $23 mill
Employee bees 37 mill
Pay down debt 85 1-time
These exceed revenue coming in, both types
Reserve funds, Rainy Day gen 122 mill Ed. 110 Disaster 12
Debt level graph, Stay below line slightly below limit. Excessive debt limits flexibility. What if other downturn? 7 yr cycle? Started May 2008, 3 ½ yrs from next downturn?
Increased revenue volatility. Sales, income, corporate tax volatility increasing. Sales huge increase in swing since 1935. Even bigger in income tax. Showing Powerpoint graphs. Jay Blain points out big down swing in income coincides with Flat Tax implementation in 2007.
Lyle Hillyard on phone – US lost bond rating. Utah has never lost. 2 of 5 criteria are worrisome. 1. How much $ from Fed.? Hill Air Force Base, other firms, like the money, can’t control this area. Can control 2. How close to bond limit? We stayed at 40% historically. Now at 85% for I-15 extra length opportunity. Not stay here, but back down to 40-50% like used to be. Pressure for state bldgs to keep bond limit high. We’re pleased w/ Rainy Day Fund. Volatility might need higher than 6% gen 8% ed fund levels. Gov can make budget rec’s alone, not consensus of leg. Only see Gov final product. People see our deliberations. Go to committee, not leaders. Priority list, hearings, public process. People panic. See tough decisions. Mid Feb brings final rev estimates. Concerned w/ challenges. Uintah Basin rev up says Sen Van Tassell. Done at 9:33
Privatization concerns, 3 items.
Sen. David Hinkins – Audit Gen fund $ reduced rec to State Parks. Reward park financial perf. Business plan updated annually, max revenues, minimize expenditures. Analyze capital investment. Use lower cost staffing, seasonal employees, overlap of support staff eliminate. Reduce law enforcement cost. Reduce #, limited status, sep entity for enforcement at dept level, reduce retirement. Audit recs consider closing high cost w/ low visits, transfer to local. Privatize some, which best? 4 golf courses, 42 state parks, some heritage parks, This is the Place—if cut $800,000 they will give park back to us. So better as is. Benefit to state. Benefit to taxpayers—expect recreation in Utah. Why live here. Not looking to close any, but streamline. American Land and Leisure run Strawberry Res. Concessionaires. Most people don’t know diff. Still good. Not actually turning parks to individuals to make profit, just concessionaires. Can do more efficiently in some cases. Test case at Otter Creek St Park right now w/ concessionaire. They say their bus partnership model working. Privatization premature. Audit made parks more accountable. Now show costs of each park. Responded to requests. Costs are down. Look at all alternatives.
Billy Casper Golf Pres: Douglas White and Mike Cutler, VP’s, Dan Parkinson citizen, and Billy Casper himself. About quality. Industry rounds played way down 10%. 4.6 mill lost golfers. How retain golfers? Price quality service in parks. OP model must stop taking tax subsidies. Myths of privatization: Rates increase state approves, Res lose access, conditions worse, loss of jobs (we seek good people), service suffers. We have lower costs, expertise, buying power of nat org, municipality not manage day-to-day. Muni funds all cap improvements. Profits retained by muni. 3010 yr contract + renewals. Increased rev examples across country. Billy Casper is fav son. He comes in to clinch the deal. “I’ve never been in front of such wonderful people dedicated to the service of your fellow man. Hope you can keep up with it. Great to be with you.”
Ques from man—If eliminate Daylight Savings Time, how affect rounds? We can be creative. Manage capacity, peak and low times. [No answer, just we’ll manage.]
? Which type of 3 options do you prefer with muni? I like lease. Give up control, but pay capital. But man agreement, you retain profits. Make most sense here. Of 70 muni course, nearly 50% are leases. Van Tassel cuts off ?’s. Other providers too. Here:
Mark Whetzel local golf course managed firm: I love Billy. Since 1990, golf demand up 5% while supply up 60%. We don’t pillage, take profits for 1 yr or 2, then leave. We like long term manage deals. Prefer 10 yrs. We have 3 in N Utah, 2 S Utah, 1 in Mesquite. We like to lease to own, take all risk.
?Utah has high% of golfers right?” So fertile ground right? Yes.
[40 42. 82 people counting 4 golf company dudes, Billy, Legislators, presenters. Represent Utah?? How many lobbyists in the room?]
Rep. Ryan Wilcox – DABC restructuring. “Misdirection” powerpoint. Chuckle to self. I was an intern, then in leg. I was not happy to find myself selling alcohol as leg. I am religion against drinking. Force all Utahns into bus. Justifications. But we’re not measuring right things. DUI’s down and justification. Compared to other states we’re not doing that well b/c our low #’s mask problems. Where drunk? Why? Where teens getting? Why? Who’s irresponsible? Need to measure more and base policy on right metrics. 12 leg audits in past 2 yrs of DABC. Bad corruption and management. Big rev stream not reason for agency or justification. Always looking to sell more. Not just prob w/ last few directors—culture spans 30 yrs. Plan: Not relinquish control, but not a wholesaler or retailer. Focus on what actually reduces teen drinking, DUI’s family consequences. Use new measurement standards. We want to take baby steps, trying to talk to all parties. [Golf guy orange sweater leaves.]
VT – Water even hotter topic than alcohol. How to pay and change long term usage and needs.
Sen. John Valentine: Water allocation based on prior beneficial use. But no system on how to pay for that water. True cost of projects, delivery, and resource itself is masked b/c paid for by prop taxes. When I started in House in 1988, I saw that costs were intended to be masked. Jurisdictions say can’t do water projects on rates b/c not predictable, but say predictable enough for operations. Disconnect. Drafting bill now – phase out over 5 yr period prop taxes to water projects. Will increase water rates, but not cost of water b/c of prop tax decrease. [Kills renters??] Rural Utah cannot fund just fro rates, esp. w/ fed gov lands. CUP has big influence. Many details to work out. We should pay for water’s true cost and use, not masked in prop taxes. Low on details.
? How affect proj to dam Bear River planned 30 yrs? Should pay w/ water rates so recog cost. We hide allocation and use as if not scarce. If proj will go, has 5 yr window, then must be financed by rates.
? Across board, all users? I want to. But may have to compromise.
? Why should leg tell communities how to price services? Leg has respon for nat resources of state. City owns water right, but state has vital interest in nat resource. Can’t say air above city is only respon of city.
? How will this extend to water districts which already levy taxes? Not transparency in their budgets? These are Water Conservancy and Special districts. Must have trans period to ensure no bond defaults. [People leave after water discussion]
Chris Bleak – Head of State Charter School Assoc. – Ed is critical to state. We need fantastic ed system. Charters have grown at rapid rate since 10-12 yrs. 81 charters currently, 45,000 now, 50,000 students next yr. Lumped as 5th or 4th biggest district. Students chosing b/c so good. Focusing on disadvantaged students. Carolyn Sharette has 2 schools in SL Valley. For new immigrants. PProvide comp. 7.6% of all students. Facilities are biggest charter problem. Critical to way teach. They pay much higher % rate than normal districts. Districts can use full faith and credit state’s AAA credit rating.3 3.5 4 % Charters paying 7, 7.5, 8% despite state schools. Original charter ideas of renovating existing bldgs is not feasible b/c school bldg codes too strict. $ back to east coast bond firms. 1. Working with State Treasurer, Richard Ellis, Valentine, industry folks, to allow “moral obligation” AA rating which would save $100,000 to $150,000 per year for carters. 2. Only to those w/ strong track record of finan success, fgood management. Need Investment Grade Rating—many in state have now. No charter in country has failed in 20 yrs w/ Investment Grade Rating. Even with 2 economic downturns. 3. Create funding, State Charter Reserve Acct. Pay premium from rates to create insurance if there were a problem to protect state. Currently required to have 1-yr reserve anyway, other protections. Save $150-200 k yr per $10 mill in debt. More than 100 k in transaction fees. More buyers b/c more attractive bonds.
? W/ reg schools, district is responsible entity. Charters, the Assoc. is respon entity? Group that gets charter is governing board. Have open meeting, reporting req.s Non-profit. They bond for their school. ? WPU funding follows all students? [Weird question.] This is a state funded public school. Income $ follow. Charters manage operations off WPU.
?What is context of “moral obligation” that gets ;lower rate? State responsible if default? Some Steve guy with Bleak– County provided rate for 9 charters but not respon. Moral oblige for all students. ? Why bank would give 3% less? Not contractually required for state to back loan. But I believe state would. So better rate b/c of State's "almost" promise.
Sen. Howard Stephenson – Anti-voucher Student Opp Scholarship. Universal vouchers rejected. Unions sent out-of-state $ to say rich kids getting voucher, voters heard advertising and voted down. [Pro-voucher out-of-states sent MORE. Documented. He thinks people are brainwashed if disagree with him.] Somewhat legitimate argument that many best and brightest would leave. When I visit teachers, I ask what is biggest challenge? [When and where?] They almost always say 2-3 most diff students whether behavior - I was one of those - or low scores. I could really focus on other 24 in my room w/o the hard ones. This bill is focused soley on those 3-4 kids. If parents want to add $, they should eb able to. Not many priv schools that accept below grade level, but some. Cath schools want ELL and low performers, We can teach effectively. This will create market for new priv schools. Tax credit allowable if you donate to 501 scholarship orgs, you get 100% tax credit w/ “certain limits.” They will then grant schools w/ req’s for parents to pay part, skin in the game. Takes diff kids out of school system. Why not wait 10 yrs b/c voters rejected school choice? Arizona law was found legal by Supreme Court. OK to give public $ to vouchers, even religious schools. That’s why this bill this year. Myself and sev other legislators. Right time. Give lowest what they need b/c falling between cracks. The name has a ring to it, not a voucher. Already have Carson Smith special needs scholarship. This could be Carson Smith 2.0. Straw poll: Anti-voucher or Carson Smith 2.0. Like 1 person vs. 5 people. Most don’t raise hands. Stephenson laughs at own joke.
1 vote guy ? Union opp? Yes, already. ? School boards USOE support? No. How funded? Would take income tax credits that otherwise would have gone to public school student. System will actually have more money for studs that remain, positive fiscal note. [Billy leaving]
Sen. Margaret Dayton – Thanks to Royce and UTA. What to name Howard’s bill. Call it Student Opp Scholarship, SOS. 6-8 yrs ago opened bill to use ACT as eval for grad preparation. To compare to nation. Seemed like good idea b/c of state $ on state test. State Board sais ACT not allow that and couldn’t afford that. Former state sen. Dave Thomas, current State School Board member, now asked me to run bill to use ACT in place of UBSCT. Has multiple pos effects. 10th graders realize what need to work on or realize they are capable. Bill passed ed. interim committee. Stephenson amended bill to include another test, a military test for students who anticipate post-high school ASVAP? Ed, but not college, free to states. Still State Board rules. Concern is maybe military cuts will cut free tests. But state of Utah will provide readiness testing. Can save money through some sort of applying money toward test costs. [Didn’t understand.] Anticipated will pass quickly.
Sen. Wayne Harper – [Didn’t understand all of this.] Online retailer and phone comp must notify buyer of obligation to pay use tax. Nexus tax says if physical presence in Utah, must pay some taxes here. Like Cabela’s kiosks for online orders. Help people comply with law and make it easier for them to know. Mark Griffin – Internet industry guy – Hard for online companies b/c of diff state rates, agri taxes, school supply exemptions, etc. One state location cost us $350,000 and 2 months of programmer time to meet tax req’s. We oppose state piecemeal proposals b/c of implementation costs. Prob w/ those proposal. Putting another hurdle, info, on web transaction hurts “conversion” of want to sale. If do it on invoice, (other states want to do too) also has cost which may be more than tax collected. We get customer service calls. Cust serv calls from Utah cost us $5. [Really??] Internet not same as cash register. We need fed standard which we are working on. Nexus bill problems – This makes us collect tax to hire service guy in Utah. We stop employing Utah subcontractors to save $. State systems not good.
VT and Rep. Hughes introduce and praise Dr. Nick Trombetta. Hughes – Revolves around turf wars. We spend $3 bill yr. on ed. in Utah including all jurisdictions’ taxes. Adults fight over adult systems. This guy came to reform diff way. He was principal and Wrestling Coach in Midland, Penn, outside Pittsburgh. When steel mill disappeared, killed taxes and school. One school district. No other dist wanted cost of bussing and teaching. Students were shipped to Ohio. Trombetta would send wrestlers running down street to show public they exist. Sent from dist to dist. Midland kids would be sports, valedictorians, parents complain. Tom Ridge allowed charter schools. He is a Democrat. Dist sued over 70% costs paid to charter school. System worked. 40,000 students in 20 states getting online school from Trombetta. 11,000 in Penn on online curric. He came up against great opp b/c of turf, who controls. I want you to meet someone than for any other reason for those kids in that town. I want to see that model expanded in Utah.
Nick Trombetta – I am the son of Italian immigrants who came after WWII. My dad worked at steel mill. He taught me that good ed. is great equalizer, the American ticket to the American promise. Where you live matters in what quality of ed. you receive. We lost $ for ed programs in my town. Neighbors wouldn’t help. We had to buy services from another state. 25 person grant attracted national attention. Many wanted. In 4th yr, Rick Santorum enrolled his kids and enrollment grew to 4,000. We dedicate lives to help kids get ed. whether online or brick and mortar. In New Mexico yesterday, reservation kids online best students in area. I am a proponent of school choice and should receive bipartisan support. When inject free market, parents’ choice, good things happen to public schools too. In Penn 10 yrs ago, under Dem Gov Rendell, charters increased a lot. Opponents said 3 things would happen: 1. Will hurt pub ed and test scores down. 2. Teachers will lose jobs. 3. Dry up cash, take money away. But 3 things happened during Rendell– 1. Test scores went up statewide. 2. More teachers in Penn with less students. (Must look at that.) 3. Record surpluses. [B/C of charters or economy??]
VT – Should we be paying districts for students who left?
Sheldon Killpack – Work w/ Academica West, Charter school management – In Utah, income tax goes to operations of pub schools. Prop tax goes toward facilities. When charters created, WPU was easy. Send to charters. How make up for prop tax issue when students leave? Easiest solution rather than battle of districts taking money to follow child. What otherwise would have followed child, leg made in lieu money. This money comes off top, fund in lieu taxes, unfair to districts w/o lots of charters. Leg decided to take at least 25% of prop taxes for students. Worked. State still over $70 mill for charters. 13 yr phase in Rep. Menlove’s bill. New students’ will get prop taxes from districts into charter pot. Districts will get off top income tax money back. Local prop. $ will follow child. There is flexibility w/ funds from WPU, not from districts, Give districts flex to use prop tax money. Why don’t districts want more? Why not plan diff, fewer bldgs, more for operations. Allows parity of opportunity for districts and charters. HB 313. Money follows child.
Rep. Jim Neilson – Severance tax biggest thing of leg. Const amendment. When we sever nat resources from ground, one-time sev tax. Was put into permanent trust fund. Takes ¾ vote and Gov sig. to spend money. Only for more serious emergencies. More diff to use than Rainy Day funds. Only done once slightly after Olympics—not paid back. Some 2008 const amendment allowed leg to divert $ BEFORE going to trust fund by only majority fund. One-time monies. If we spend sev tax fund today, not there for urgent need tomorrow. New Const. Amendment to fix.
Sen. Wayne Niederhauser – Procurement code. [No idea what this is.] No major changes since 1979 American Bar Assoc. code changes. Will adopt much of modern lang. in 2000 Bar standards. Lots of clean-up. [Didn’t listen well here.] Bad code makes bad media stories. Teeth for intentional violation of procurement code.
Sen. Stuart Adams – Energy incentives.
Sen. Ben McAdams – VT says get districts out of business of helping local developers. Muni’s can charge up to 1% extra state sales tax. 50% to location of sale and 50% to location of population. $100 spent at Gateway. Local option 1%. $1 collected. .50 to SLC and .50 to statewide fund distributed based on population. SLC gets 8% of that other .50. Rough formula, not scientific, realizing population has costs. Fairly reflective of where needs fall. Mostly fair. SLC #2 in nation in daytime pop increase. 180,000 to 350,000 each day. Costs w/ that. 600 S. use 90% by non-res, police, fire, etc. Ran formula that SLC spends $280 on non-residents. [Seems fishy to me] Bro would have to spend $56,000 to make that in retail tax. Retail doesn’t do all. Tax incentives and population coming sometimes cancel out increased retail. Cities chase too much sometimes. Working w/ Rep. Nielson and Hughes, Sen. Stephenson. Add a component along w/ point of purchase and population. Add job wage $ to calculation, so not reject good jobs with costing facilities. Figure out dist. of wages and distribute some sales tax on that. Cities worried, don’t want civil war between cities. Only accept if new revenue on table. There is a federal movement to require online retailers to collect online sales tax. IF that happens, we should change dist. formula. We would see 5-10% increase. Law triggers IF fed. Law passes.
VT Sen Madsen is neighbor of mine. SB 27 film bill got wrapped up this morning.
Madsen – I’ve been working for 3 yrs on film issue. Text at 5:30 this morning that is resolved. I’ve been trying to help largest independent movie studio in world, Raleigh Studios, lots of cities, for 3 yrs. Wanted to come to Utah. Came to state about draconian local land use authority, could use only 1/6 of space. Tried to help over years. People are sovereigns. Delegate little auth to state, which then delegates further to local level. Some say leave “local tyrants.” Leg not accountable for that. I disagree. State has responsibility to ensure no gov in state turns into tyrants. How many movies could have been made in 3 yrs? How many jobs in that time? [Only money matters] If only gov understood, value of time. Gov not understand. [Lots of irony here about leg tyranny??]
Rep. Patrick Painter – HB 41 Simplify Taxes on Personal Property. Will help small business owners. Reduce audits.
? Prevent muni’s from raising other taxes to offset losses from bill? May very slightly affect prop taxes on all businesses and home owners. Makes it easier to do business.
David Crapo – SB 27 Taxpayers Right to Refund Some court ruled that individual had no right to ask for erroneously collected taxes if a vendor charged wrongly, gave to state. State not responsible if state didn’t make mistake. This amends code. State can give back even if vendor makes mistake. Puts burden on state to justify keeping $. Retroactive to help past claims.
VT Casey Anderson is w/ Speaker Lockhart, so not talking. Jonathan Williams and Megan Archer will do Utah Taxpayer’s Assoc. news conference in 15 min at cap bldg.
I think there were fewer than 10 "regular" members of the public in attendance counting myself, and the rest were lobbyist/insider types there for work and looking out for their respective interests. For example, the nice gentleman I sat next to ended up being a policy director for the UEA, but I Googled his name right at the end and didn't get a chance to really talk to him. Another indicator of who the meeting was really about was the list of "sponsors" on the back of the agenda who apparently paid for the handouts, the muffins and juice at the door, and probably a room fee. (Meetings of affluent lobbying groups apparently have sponsors.) They were: Billy Casper Golf, a management firm who presented for 15 min. about allowing them to run government golf courses while causing other bills to be pushed off of the agenda, Red Leaf Resources, an oil shale firm who wants favorable laws, 2 companies wanting to manage or buy our state parks: American Land and Leisure and Recreation Resource Management, Questar Gas, and Rio Tinto--both of whom have various tax, regulation, and clean air laws frequently before the legislature. But they of course did this out of the goodness of their hearts, wanting nothing in return; and our legislators would never be influenced by this, even if these companies are in fact paying clients of Senator Stephenson and the Utah Taxpayer's Association. (A law firm specializing in business litigation, and environmental and mining laws, Parsons, Behle, and Latimer, "sponsored" the 2012 Fast Tax pamphlet which is actually a very cool summary of government taxes, fees, and revenue generators in Utah. But they don't want any influence. It is just part of their charitable outreach for politicians with printing needs.)
What citizen could be cynical about conflicts of interest in our state legislature? Conflicts of interest are products of the liberal media, unless we are talking about Barney Frank or Newt Gingrich. But the real point is to never let the Utah Taxpayer's Association's euphemistic name and rhetoric mask the fact that the group is really just a lobbying firm with secret clients that makes a handsome living for its few employees, chief among them longtime State Senator Howard Stephenson. The organization and its aims are not about regular citizens; it exists purely to lobby for laws that financially benefit its secret clients. If Senator Stephenson stepped down from his influential position in the legislature tomorrow, the Association's revenues would immediately plummet.
The notes are long and fairly rushed as it was hard to keep up sometimes. Royce Van Tassell, 2nd-in-command at the Taxpayer's Association under Stephenson, was the emcee of the event. He frequently gave short introductions of the speakers and/or bills. I often wrote the presenter's name, and then wrote VT for Van Tassell, followed by his introductory comment. Hopefully, it's not too confusing. [Comments in brackets are my own thoughts about what I am summarizing.] I indicate questions with a ? followed by the question. Assume answers come from the presenter.
A traffic jam on I-15 made me 10 min. late and I only caught the last bit of Speaker Lockhart's remarks.
My notes:
Sitting by Jay Blain. Googled him right at the end and he is a UEA bigwig. I wish I had known and talked to him a little more.
Lockhart and Waddoups - Some issue will pop up. Maybe national popular vote says Waddoups.
9:19 Dougall – New revenue worst of times b/c of many requests.
1-time money: $128 million 49 gen 79 in education fund
Ongoing revenue: $280 million, 91 general, 188 in ed fund
Immediate needs:
Structural deficit 52 mill
Public ed growth 41 mill
Medicaid 68 , 44 one-time
Other Medicaid 28 M, 18 M 1-time
Legal 14 mill 1-time
Bldg myce 53 mill
1%WPU increase $23 mill
Employee bees 37 mill
Pay down debt 85 1-time
These exceed revenue coming in, both types
Reserve funds, Rainy Day gen 122 mill Ed. 110 Disaster 12
Debt level graph, Stay below line slightly below limit. Excessive debt limits flexibility. What if other downturn? 7 yr cycle? Started May 2008, 3 ½ yrs from next downturn?
Increased revenue volatility. Sales, income, corporate tax volatility increasing. Sales huge increase in swing since 1935. Even bigger in income tax. Showing Powerpoint graphs. Jay Blain points out big down swing in income coincides with Flat Tax implementation in 2007.
Lyle Hillyard on phone – US lost bond rating. Utah has never lost. 2 of 5 criteria are worrisome. 1. How much $ from Fed.? Hill Air Force Base, other firms, like the money, can’t control this area. Can control 2. How close to bond limit? We stayed at 40% historically. Now at 85% for I-15 extra length opportunity. Not stay here, but back down to 40-50% like used to be. Pressure for state bldgs to keep bond limit high. We’re pleased w/ Rainy Day Fund. Volatility might need higher than 6% gen 8% ed fund levels. Gov can make budget rec’s alone, not consensus of leg. Only see Gov final product. People see our deliberations. Go to committee, not leaders. Priority list, hearings, public process. People panic. See tough decisions. Mid Feb brings final rev estimates. Concerned w/ challenges. Uintah Basin rev up says Sen Van Tassell. Done at 9:33
Privatization concerns, 3 items.
Sen. David Hinkins – Audit Gen fund $ reduced rec to State Parks. Reward park financial perf. Business plan updated annually, max revenues, minimize expenditures. Analyze capital investment. Use lower cost staffing, seasonal employees, overlap of support staff eliminate. Reduce law enforcement cost. Reduce #, limited status, sep entity for enforcement at dept level, reduce retirement. Audit recs consider closing high cost w/ low visits, transfer to local. Privatize some, which best? 4 golf courses, 42 state parks, some heritage parks, This is the Place—if cut $800,000 they will give park back to us. So better as is. Benefit to state. Benefit to taxpayers—expect recreation in Utah. Why live here. Not looking to close any, but streamline. American Land and Leisure run Strawberry Res. Concessionaires. Most people don’t know diff. Still good. Not actually turning parks to individuals to make profit, just concessionaires. Can do more efficiently in some cases. Test case at Otter Creek St Park right now w/ concessionaire. They say their bus partnership model working. Privatization premature. Audit made parks more accountable. Now show costs of each park. Responded to requests. Costs are down. Look at all alternatives.
Billy Casper Golf Pres: Douglas White and Mike Cutler, VP’s, Dan Parkinson citizen, and Billy Casper himself. About quality. Industry rounds played way down 10%. 4.6 mill lost golfers. How retain golfers? Price quality service in parks. OP model must stop taking tax subsidies. Myths of privatization: Rates increase state approves, Res lose access, conditions worse, loss of jobs (we seek good people), service suffers. We have lower costs, expertise, buying power of nat org, municipality not manage day-to-day. Muni funds all cap improvements. Profits retained by muni. 3010 yr contract + renewals. Increased rev examples across country. Billy Casper is fav son. He comes in to clinch the deal. “I’ve never been in front of such wonderful people dedicated to the service of your fellow man. Hope you can keep up with it. Great to be with you.”
Ques from man—If eliminate Daylight Savings Time, how affect rounds? We can be creative. Manage capacity, peak and low times. [No answer, just we’ll manage.]
? Which type of 3 options do you prefer with muni? I like lease. Give up control, but pay capital. But man agreement, you retain profits. Make most sense here. Of 70 muni course, nearly 50% are leases. Van Tassel cuts off ?’s. Other providers too. Here:
Mark Whetzel local golf course managed firm: I love Billy. Since 1990, golf demand up 5% while supply up 60%. We don’t pillage, take profits for 1 yr or 2, then leave. We like long term manage deals. Prefer 10 yrs. We have 3 in N Utah, 2 S Utah, 1 in Mesquite. We like to lease to own, take all risk.
?Utah has high% of golfers right?” So fertile ground right? Yes.
[40 42. 82 people counting 4 golf company dudes, Billy, Legislators, presenters. Represent Utah?? How many lobbyists in the room?]
Rep. Ryan Wilcox – DABC restructuring. “Misdirection” powerpoint. Chuckle to self. I was an intern, then in leg. I was not happy to find myself selling alcohol as leg. I am religion against drinking. Force all Utahns into bus. Justifications. But we’re not measuring right things. DUI’s down and justification. Compared to other states we’re not doing that well b/c our low #’s mask problems. Where drunk? Why? Where teens getting? Why? Who’s irresponsible? Need to measure more and base policy on right metrics. 12 leg audits in past 2 yrs of DABC. Bad corruption and management. Big rev stream not reason for agency or justification. Always looking to sell more. Not just prob w/ last few directors—culture spans 30 yrs. Plan: Not relinquish control, but not a wholesaler or retailer. Focus on what actually reduces teen drinking, DUI’s family consequences. Use new measurement standards. We want to take baby steps, trying to talk to all parties. [Golf guy orange sweater leaves.]
VT – Water even hotter topic than alcohol. How to pay and change long term usage and needs.
Sen. John Valentine: Water allocation based on prior beneficial use. But no system on how to pay for that water. True cost of projects, delivery, and resource itself is masked b/c paid for by prop taxes. When I started in House in 1988, I saw that costs were intended to be masked. Jurisdictions say can’t do water projects on rates b/c not predictable, but say predictable enough for operations. Disconnect. Drafting bill now – phase out over 5 yr period prop taxes to water projects. Will increase water rates, but not cost of water b/c of prop tax decrease. [Kills renters??] Rural Utah cannot fund just fro rates, esp. w/ fed gov lands. CUP has big influence. Many details to work out. We should pay for water’s true cost and use, not masked in prop taxes. Low on details.
? How affect proj to dam Bear River planned 30 yrs? Should pay w/ water rates so recog cost. We hide allocation and use as if not scarce. If proj will go, has 5 yr window, then must be financed by rates.
? Across board, all users? I want to. But may have to compromise.
? Why should leg tell communities how to price services? Leg has respon for nat resources of state. City owns water right, but state has vital interest in nat resource. Can’t say air above city is only respon of city.
? How will this extend to water districts which already levy taxes? Not transparency in their budgets? These are Water Conservancy and Special districts. Must have trans period to ensure no bond defaults. [People leave after water discussion]
Chris Bleak – Head of State Charter School Assoc. – Ed is critical to state. We need fantastic ed system. Charters have grown at rapid rate since 10-12 yrs. 81 charters currently, 45,000 now, 50,000 students next yr. Lumped as 5th or 4th biggest district. Students chosing b/c so good. Focusing on disadvantaged students. Carolyn Sharette has 2 schools in SL Valley. For new immigrants. PProvide comp. 7.6% of all students. Facilities are biggest charter problem. Critical to way teach. They pay much higher % rate than normal districts. Districts can use full faith and credit state’s AAA credit rating.3 3.5 4 % Charters paying 7, 7.5, 8% despite state schools. Original charter ideas of renovating existing bldgs is not feasible b/c school bldg codes too strict. $ back to east coast bond firms. 1. Working with State Treasurer, Richard Ellis, Valentine, industry folks, to allow “moral obligation” AA rating which would save $100,000 to $150,000 per year for carters. 2. Only to those w/ strong track record of finan success, fgood management. Need Investment Grade Rating—many in state have now. No charter in country has failed in 20 yrs w/ Investment Grade Rating. Even with 2 economic downturns. 3. Create funding, State Charter Reserve Acct. Pay premium from rates to create insurance if there were a problem to protect state. Currently required to have 1-yr reserve anyway, other protections. Save $150-200 k yr per $10 mill in debt. More than 100 k in transaction fees. More buyers b/c more attractive bonds.
? W/ reg schools, district is responsible entity. Charters, the Assoc. is respon entity? Group that gets charter is governing board. Have open meeting, reporting req.s Non-profit. They bond for their school. ? WPU funding follows all students? [Weird question.] This is a state funded public school. Income $ follow. Charters manage operations off WPU.
?What is context of “moral obligation” that gets ;lower rate? State responsible if default? Some Steve guy with Bleak– County provided rate for 9 charters but not respon. Moral oblige for all students. ? Why bank would give 3% less? Not contractually required for state to back loan. But I believe state would. So better rate b/c of State's "almost" promise.
Sen. Howard Stephenson – Anti-voucher Student Opp Scholarship. Universal vouchers rejected. Unions sent out-of-state $ to say rich kids getting voucher, voters heard advertising and voted down. [Pro-voucher out-of-states sent MORE. Documented. He thinks people are brainwashed if disagree with him.] Somewhat legitimate argument that many best and brightest would leave. When I visit teachers, I ask what is biggest challenge? [When and where?] They almost always say 2-3 most diff students whether behavior - I was one of those - or low scores. I could really focus on other 24 in my room w/o the hard ones. This bill is focused soley on those 3-4 kids. If parents want to add $, they should eb able to. Not many priv schools that accept below grade level, but some. Cath schools want ELL and low performers, We can teach effectively. This will create market for new priv schools. Tax credit allowable if you donate to 501 scholarship orgs, you get 100% tax credit w/ “certain limits.” They will then grant schools w/ req’s for parents to pay part, skin in the game. Takes diff kids out of school system. Why not wait 10 yrs b/c voters rejected school choice? Arizona law was found legal by Supreme Court. OK to give public $ to vouchers, even religious schools. That’s why this bill this year. Myself and sev other legislators. Right time. Give lowest what they need b/c falling between cracks. The name has a ring to it, not a voucher. Already have Carson Smith special needs scholarship. This could be Carson Smith 2.0. Straw poll: Anti-voucher or Carson Smith 2.0. Like 1 person vs. 5 people. Most don’t raise hands. Stephenson laughs at own joke.
1 vote guy ? Union opp? Yes, already. ? School boards USOE support? No. How funded? Would take income tax credits that otherwise would have gone to public school student. System will actually have more money for studs that remain, positive fiscal note. [Billy leaving]
Sen. Margaret Dayton – Thanks to Royce and UTA. What to name Howard’s bill. Call it Student Opp Scholarship, SOS. 6-8 yrs ago opened bill to use ACT as eval for grad preparation. To compare to nation. Seemed like good idea b/c of state $ on state test. State Board sais ACT not allow that and couldn’t afford that. Former state sen. Dave Thomas, current State School Board member, now asked me to run bill to use ACT in place of UBSCT. Has multiple pos effects. 10th graders realize what need to work on or realize they are capable. Bill passed ed. interim committee. Stephenson amended bill to include another test, a military test for students who anticipate post-high school ASVAP? Ed, but not college, free to states. Still State Board rules. Concern is maybe military cuts will cut free tests. But state of Utah will provide readiness testing. Can save money through some sort of applying money toward test costs. [Didn’t understand.] Anticipated will pass quickly.
Sen. Wayne Harper – [Didn’t understand all of this.] Online retailer and phone comp must notify buyer of obligation to pay use tax. Nexus tax says if physical presence in Utah, must pay some taxes here. Like Cabela’s kiosks for online orders. Help people comply with law and make it easier for them to know. Mark Griffin – Internet industry guy – Hard for online companies b/c of diff state rates, agri taxes, school supply exemptions, etc. One state location cost us $350,000 and 2 months of programmer time to meet tax req’s. We oppose state piecemeal proposals b/c of implementation costs. Prob w/ those proposal. Putting another hurdle, info, on web transaction hurts “conversion” of want to sale. If do it on invoice, (other states want to do too) also has cost which may be more than tax collected. We get customer service calls. Cust serv calls from Utah cost us $5. [Really??] Internet not same as cash register. We need fed standard which we are working on. Nexus bill problems – This makes us collect tax to hire service guy in Utah. We stop employing Utah subcontractors to save $. State systems not good.
VT and Rep. Hughes introduce and praise Dr. Nick Trombetta. Hughes – Revolves around turf wars. We spend $3 bill yr. on ed. in Utah including all jurisdictions’ taxes. Adults fight over adult systems. This guy came to reform diff way. He was principal and Wrestling Coach in Midland, Penn, outside Pittsburgh. When steel mill disappeared, killed taxes and school. One school district. No other dist wanted cost of bussing and teaching. Students were shipped to Ohio. Trombetta would send wrestlers running down street to show public they exist. Sent from dist to dist. Midland kids would be sports, valedictorians, parents complain. Tom Ridge allowed charter schools. He is a Democrat. Dist sued over 70% costs paid to charter school. System worked. 40,000 students in 20 states getting online school from Trombetta. 11,000 in Penn on online curric. He came up against great opp b/c of turf, who controls. I want you to meet someone than for any other reason for those kids in that town. I want to see that model expanded in Utah.
Nick Trombetta – I am the son of Italian immigrants who came after WWII. My dad worked at steel mill. He taught me that good ed. is great equalizer, the American ticket to the American promise. Where you live matters in what quality of ed. you receive. We lost $ for ed programs in my town. Neighbors wouldn’t help. We had to buy services from another state. 25 person grant attracted national attention. Many wanted. In 4th yr, Rick Santorum enrolled his kids and enrollment grew to 4,000. We dedicate lives to help kids get ed. whether online or brick and mortar. In New Mexico yesterday, reservation kids online best students in area. I am a proponent of school choice and should receive bipartisan support. When inject free market, parents’ choice, good things happen to public schools too. In Penn 10 yrs ago, under Dem Gov Rendell, charters increased a lot. Opponents said 3 things would happen: 1. Will hurt pub ed and test scores down. 2. Teachers will lose jobs. 3. Dry up cash, take money away. But 3 things happened during Rendell– 1. Test scores went up statewide. 2. More teachers in Penn with less students. (Must look at that.) 3. Record surpluses. [B/C of charters or economy??]
VT – Should we be paying districts for students who left?
Sheldon Killpack – Work w/ Academica West, Charter school management – In Utah, income tax goes to operations of pub schools. Prop tax goes toward facilities. When charters created, WPU was easy. Send to charters. How make up for prop tax issue when students leave? Easiest solution rather than battle of districts taking money to follow child. What otherwise would have followed child, leg made in lieu money. This money comes off top, fund in lieu taxes, unfair to districts w/o lots of charters. Leg decided to take at least 25% of prop taxes for students. Worked. State still over $70 mill for charters. 13 yr phase in Rep. Menlove’s bill. New students’ will get prop taxes from districts into charter pot. Districts will get off top income tax money back. Local prop. $ will follow child. There is flexibility w/ funds from WPU, not from districts, Give districts flex to use prop tax money. Why don’t districts want more? Why not plan diff, fewer bldgs, more for operations. Allows parity of opportunity for districts and charters. HB 313. Money follows child.
Rep. Jim Neilson – Severance tax biggest thing of leg. Const amendment. When we sever nat resources from ground, one-time sev tax. Was put into permanent trust fund. Takes ¾ vote and Gov sig. to spend money. Only for more serious emergencies. More diff to use than Rainy Day funds. Only done once slightly after Olympics—not paid back. Some 2008 const amendment allowed leg to divert $ BEFORE going to trust fund by only majority fund. One-time monies. If we spend sev tax fund today, not there for urgent need tomorrow. New Const. Amendment to fix.
Sen. Wayne Niederhauser – Procurement code. [No idea what this is.] No major changes since 1979 American Bar Assoc. code changes. Will adopt much of modern lang. in 2000 Bar standards. Lots of clean-up. [Didn’t listen well here.] Bad code makes bad media stories. Teeth for intentional violation of procurement code.
Sen. Stuart Adams – Energy incentives.
Sen. Ben McAdams – VT says get districts out of business of helping local developers. Muni’s can charge up to 1% extra state sales tax. 50% to location of sale and 50% to location of population. $100 spent at Gateway. Local option 1%. $1 collected. .50 to SLC and .50 to statewide fund distributed based on population. SLC gets 8% of that other .50. Rough formula, not scientific, realizing population has costs. Fairly reflective of where needs fall. Mostly fair. SLC #2 in nation in daytime pop increase. 180,000 to 350,000 each day. Costs w/ that. 600 S. use 90% by non-res, police, fire, etc. Ran formula that SLC spends $280 on non-residents. [Seems fishy to me] Bro would have to spend $56,000 to make that in retail tax. Retail doesn’t do all. Tax incentives and population coming sometimes cancel out increased retail. Cities chase too much sometimes. Working w/ Rep. Nielson and Hughes, Sen. Stephenson. Add a component along w/ point of purchase and population. Add job wage $ to calculation, so not reject good jobs with costing facilities. Figure out dist. of wages and distribute some sales tax on that. Cities worried, don’t want civil war between cities. Only accept if new revenue on table. There is a federal movement to require online retailers to collect online sales tax. IF that happens, we should change dist. formula. We would see 5-10% increase. Law triggers IF fed. Law passes.
VT Sen Madsen is neighbor of mine. SB 27 film bill got wrapped up this morning.
Madsen – I’ve been working for 3 yrs on film issue. Text at 5:30 this morning that is resolved. I’ve been trying to help largest independent movie studio in world, Raleigh Studios, lots of cities, for 3 yrs. Wanted to come to Utah. Came to state about draconian local land use authority, could use only 1/6 of space. Tried to help over years. People are sovereigns. Delegate little auth to state, which then delegates further to local level. Some say leave “local tyrants.” Leg not accountable for that. I disagree. State has responsibility to ensure no gov in state turns into tyrants. How many movies could have been made in 3 yrs? How many jobs in that time? [Only money matters] If only gov understood, value of time. Gov not understand. [Lots of irony here about leg tyranny??]
Rep. Patrick Painter – HB 41 Simplify Taxes on Personal Property. Will help small business owners. Reduce audits.
? Prevent muni’s from raising other taxes to offset losses from bill? May very slightly affect prop taxes on all businesses and home owners. Makes it easier to do business.
David Crapo – SB 27 Taxpayers Right to Refund Some court ruled that individual had no right to ask for erroneously collected taxes if a vendor charged wrongly, gave to state. State not responsible if state didn’t make mistake. This amends code. State can give back even if vendor makes mistake. Puts burden on state to justify keeping $. Retroactive to help past claims.
VT Casey Anderson is w/ Speaker Lockhart, so not talking. Jonathan Williams and Megan Archer will do Utah Taxpayer’s Assoc. news conference in 15 min at cap bldg.
Wednesday, January 11, 2012
Stephenson and Utah Taxpayer Association's pre-legislative conference agenda: A voucher by any other name...
Long time, no blog. I'm Twittering now and again for shorter examples of the hammer coming down on Utah Public Education from powerful legislators. @UtahTeacher
Saw the Utah Taxpayers Association's agenda for their pre-legislative conference today. Lots of coded voucher varieties and increase of state control over education. Reduce local district funding and control to give the legislature more power with less opposition.
http://www.utahtaxpayers.org/?p=4153
http://www.utahtaxpayers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Tentative-PreLeg-Agenda-Agenda.pdf
Some items from the pdf agenda:
10:00 Ed. Savings Accounts = Super "Backpack funding" = vouchers that students could just keep the money if they graduated early, also they virtually eliminate districts as entities and totally gut district programs, busing, Special Ed., ELL, magnet programs, closes schools in poor areas
Further info...
Further spin...
(Talking points = It's for the children vs. greedy teachers/districts, reward high achievers, family controls education, strategically ignore effects of destroying district programs = money directly to kids will solve all problems and provide all needed)
10:05 Anti-voucher Student Opportunity Scholarship = Tuition Tax Credits = vouchers from front end of funding rather than back
10:20 HB 15 Statewide Adaptive Testing = test multiple times per year with low statistical "validity" (tied to performance pay/value-added measures) -- there is good to these as instruments, but rhetoric behind implementation and reality of multiple administrations and use as an objective data comparison = problems
10:25 Charter School Bonding - Charters get permission to use public bonds? Screw districts?
10:30 SB 10 College & Career Readiness Assessments = New UBSCT = ACT?, eventual financial penalties for schools
10:35 Eliminating Funding for Phantom Students (presented by Sheldon Killpack??)-- Their dishonest way of saying local district bonding authority will be eliminated and sales tax increased to provide more $ for charter schools. Local control is only sacred when opposing Obama.
11:05 SB 27 Taxpayers Right to Refund -- No idea, but most likely more income tax taken from schools, right?
Saw the Utah Taxpayers Association's agenda for their pre-legislative conference today. Lots of coded voucher varieties and increase of state control over education. Reduce local district funding and control to give the legislature more power with less opposition.
http://www.utahtaxpayers.org/?p=4153
http://www.utahtaxpayers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Tentative-PreLeg-Agenda-Agenda.pdf
Some items from the pdf agenda:
10:00 Ed. Savings Accounts = Super "Backpack funding" = vouchers that students could just keep the money if they graduated early, also they virtually eliminate districts as entities and totally gut district programs, busing, Special Ed., ELL, magnet programs, closes schools in poor areas
Further info...
Further spin...
(Talking points = It's for the children vs. greedy teachers/districts, reward high achievers, family controls education, strategically ignore effects of destroying district programs = money directly to kids will solve all problems and provide all needed)
10:05 Anti-voucher Student Opportunity Scholarship = Tuition Tax Credits = vouchers from front end of funding rather than back
10:20 HB 15 Statewide Adaptive Testing = test multiple times per year with low statistical "validity" (tied to performance pay/value-added measures) -- there is good to these as instruments, but rhetoric behind implementation and reality of multiple administrations and use as an objective data comparison = problems
10:25 Charter School Bonding - Charters get permission to use public bonds? Screw districts?
10:30 SB 10 College & Career Readiness Assessments = New UBSCT = ACT?, eventual financial penalties for schools
10:35 Eliminating Funding for Phantom Students (presented by Sheldon Killpack??)-- Their dishonest way of saying local district bonding authority will be eliminated and sales tax increased to provide more $ for charter schools. Local control is only sacred when opposing Obama.
11:05 SB 27 Taxpayers Right to Refund -- No idea, but most likely more income tax taken from schools, right?
Tuesday, February 22, 2011
"Boxcar bills" waiting until the last two weeks to start big education budget battles
I've been torn lately -- so much going on at the legislature and so little time to write about it. The small government loving Utah legislature has proposed 109 bills related to education for the 2011 legislative session. That is not counting the 19 abandoned bills at the bottom of the page or other education related bills not labeled as such like Rep. Draxler's bill HB 25 using "excess" oil and gas taxes to create "petroleum literacy" materials for elementary schools.
There are also numerous "boxcar" bills (meaning they have a name and a number, but the sponsor has not chosen to allow anyone to read the text of the bill yet with only 2 1/2 weeks remaining of the session ) sitting like timebombs, waiting to be sprung onto the floor "under suspension of the rules," which means they can be rapidly debated on the floor with no committee hearing to allow public comment and which also prevents the public and legislators alike from having time to read and understand the bill before it gets voted on. Some of these bills I've been watching finally received text on Monday, Feb. 21, Presidents Day.
There are multiple final education budget battles looming as likely candidates for last minute shenanigans, including again stealing locally voted funds for charter schools, de facto vouchers as "backpack" funding, funding for reading programs for K-2, actually funding growth instead of just moving funds around and claiming to fund new students, or completely removing the ability for local districts to raise taxes while increasing the sales tax on food, which is of course controlled and distributed by the state legislature. Watch Howard Stephenson who has a history of anti-education last-minute tactics and also has a bill tucked away intended to make school board elections partisan. Rep. Merlynn Newbold is his frequent partner in crime, initiating Stephenson's ideas as bills in the House -- like HB 313, an empty boxcar bill replacing the Charter School Finance Amendments bill Stephenson abandoned -- so it isn't as obvious how much Senator Stephenson is single-handedly manipulating education policy in Utah.
Here are some doozies to watch out for. These are all boxcar bills as of Feb. 21 if they are listed, unless I explain when the bill was made public next to the item on the list. You can sign up at the bottom of each link to receive email updates if and when these bills become active. Notice how many have vague titles about "amendments" and "modifications" which lets the legislator stick in anything they want at the last minute.
I am 99% sure I have missed some boxcars or recently posted bills, but here are at least 36 education-related bills which have either not been posted for public viewing or only received their text in the last week. These last two weeks could get even uglier for education in what is already the worst session in recent memory...
There are also numerous "boxcar" bills (meaning they have a name and a number, but the sponsor has not chosen to allow anyone to read the text of the bill yet with only 2 1/2 weeks remaining of the session ) sitting like timebombs, waiting to be sprung onto the floor "under suspension of the rules," which means they can be rapidly debated on the floor with no committee hearing to allow public comment and which also prevents the public and legislators alike from having time to read and understand the bill before it gets voted on. Some of these bills I've been watching finally received text on Monday, Feb. 21, Presidents Day.
There are multiple final education budget battles looming as likely candidates for last minute shenanigans, including again stealing locally voted funds for charter schools, de facto vouchers as "backpack" funding, funding for reading programs for K-2, actually funding growth instead of just moving funds around and claiming to fund new students, or completely removing the ability for local districts to raise taxes while increasing the sales tax on food, which is of course controlled and distributed by the state legislature. Watch Howard Stephenson who has a history of anti-education last-minute tactics and also has a bill tucked away intended to make school board elections partisan. Rep. Merlynn Newbold is his frequent partner in crime, initiating Stephenson's ideas as bills in the House -- like HB 313, an empty boxcar bill replacing the Charter School Finance Amendments bill Stephenson abandoned -- so it isn't as obvious how much Senator Stephenson is single-handedly manipulating education policy in Utah.
Here are some doozies to watch out for. These are all boxcar bills as of Feb. 21 if they are listed, unless I explain when the bill was made public next to the item on the list. You can sign up at the bottom of each link to receive email updates if and when these bills become active. Notice how many have vague titles about "amendments" and "modifications" which lets the legislator stick in anything they want at the last minute.
H.B. 65 Public School Funding -- Harper, W. Received text last week. Financial mumbo-jumbo that would usurp some local taxing control.
H.B. 123 K-12 Education Amendments -- Sumsion, K. Received text yesterday. This bill would totally change the whole basis of how the state distributes education funding, likely giving more to charter schools. It would also shorten terms for school board members. No big deal to hold it until the end.
H.B. 145 Education Amendments -- Eliason, S.
H.B. 151 Compulsory Education Amendments -- Briscoe, J. Received text last week. Would make kindergarten non-optional.
H.B. 290 Public School Transportation Amendments -- Wimmer, C.
H.B. 301 School District Property Tax Revisions -- Newbold, M. Received text last week. Another example of the legislature taking away local tax control and giving the power to themselves.
H.B. 302 Reading Program Amendments -- Newbold, M.
H.B. 307 Public Broadcasting Funding -- Herrod, C. Though Chris Vanocur has already revealed the liberal plot on this one.
H.B. 313 Charter School Funding Amendments -- Newbold, M.
H.B. 339 Charter School Enrollment Amendments -- Hutchings, E.
H.B. 346 Provisional Teaching Modifications -- Herrod, C.
H.B. 377 Higher Education Textbook Fairness Act -- Cox, F. Aimed at specific companies or increasing conservative leaning texts?
H.B. 388 Financial Oversight of Charter Schools -- Herrod, C.
H.B. 426 Education Funding Amendments -- Pitcher, D.
H.B. 427 Education Modifications -- Newbold, M.
H.B. 443 School Business Administrator Amendments -- Richardson, H.
H.B. 447 Modifications to Education -- Dee, B.
H.B. 455 Land Exchange Distribution Account Amendments -- Noel, M. Presumably related to this dust-up over HB 98 where Noel wants to further remove local control from counties. (Click on the Floor Debate audio file to hear his rant) Related to HB 400 yet another boxcar which Rolly references?
H.B. 464 State-Supported Voted Leeway Program Amendments -- Briscoe, J.
S.B. 4 Current School Year Supplemental Minimum School Program Budget Adjustments -- Buttars, D. C.
S.B. 78 Public School Early Graduation Counseling -- Buttars, D. C. Received text yesterday. Actually seems like an easy, good idea rather than eliminating 12th grade.
S.B. 163 School Restructuring -- Stephenson, H. Stephenson bragged on his radio show that this bill is intended to close down a set number of schools each year. No need to consult the teachers on this one, let alone the parents. Great candidate for a rushed debate.
S.B. 210 Utah Postsecondary Proprietary School Act Amendments -- Bramble, C. Received text yesterday. One of two or three bills Bramble is running about the regulation and taxation of private schools and training programs. I have no idea what these bills will do, but I smell a tax break for "economic development."
S.B. 217 Education Policy Amendments -- Bramble, C.
S.B. 224 Partisan School Board Elections -- Stephenson, H. Of course a "school board elections" bill run by the chair of the Senate Education Committee was not labeled education. Easy to miss this one.
S.B. 227 Student Based Funding for Public Education -- Liljenquist, D. "Backpack" funding. The PCE and charter lobbyists will hit hard for these pseudo-vouchers when this bill is unveiled in the near future.
S.B. 241 Tuition Waiver Amendments -- Hinkins, D.
S.B. 245 Higher Education Tuition Revisions -- Valentine, J.
S.B. 256 Teacher Effectiveness Evaluation Process -- Adams, J. S.
S.B. 263 State Board of Education Powers Amendments -- Buttars, D. C.
S.B. 265 State Charter School Board Modifications -- Madsen, M. Unnecessary due to SB 140?
S.B. 278 School District Modifications -- Bramble, C.
S.B. 292 Private Institutions of Higher Education -- Valentine, J.
S.B. 304 Bullying Amendments -- Okerlund, R.
S.B. 305 Economic Development Through Education / Career Alignment -- Stephenson, H. Stephenson's 2.5 to 8 million dollar career web app and chat room that will convince undergrads not to be dance majors. And of course, IBM developed this one-of-a-kind software prototype at his request (meaning no private company has seen promise in making a for-profit chat room developed around career information easily searchable for free already), but Senator Stephenson "doesn't know" if they would win a bid for this service. We have seen this before.
S.B. 316 Disclosure of State and Institutional Trust Lands Information -- Niederhauser, W.
H.B. 123 K-12 Education Amendments -- Sumsion, K. Received text yesterday. This bill would totally change the whole basis of how the state distributes education funding, likely giving more to charter schools. It would also shorten terms for school board members. No big deal to hold it until the end.
H.B. 145 Education Amendments -- Eliason, S.
H.B. 151 Compulsory Education Amendments -- Briscoe, J. Received text last week. Would make kindergarten non-optional.
H.B. 290 Public School Transportation Amendments -- Wimmer, C.
H.B. 301 School District Property Tax Revisions -- Newbold, M. Received text last week. Another example of the legislature taking away local tax control and giving the power to themselves.
H.B. 302 Reading Program Amendments -- Newbold, M.
H.B. 307 Public Broadcasting Funding -- Herrod, C. Though Chris Vanocur has already revealed the liberal plot on this one.
H.B. 313 Charter School Funding Amendments -- Newbold, M.
H.B. 339 Charter School Enrollment Amendments -- Hutchings, E.
H.B. 346 Provisional Teaching Modifications -- Herrod, C.
H.B. 377 Higher Education Textbook Fairness Act -- Cox, F. Aimed at specific companies or increasing conservative leaning texts?
H.B. 388 Financial Oversight of Charter Schools -- Herrod, C.
H.B. 426 Education Funding Amendments -- Pitcher, D.
H.B. 427 Education Modifications -- Newbold, M.
H.B. 443 School Business Administrator Amendments -- Richardson, H.
H.B. 447 Modifications to Education -- Dee, B.
H.B. 455 Land Exchange Distribution Account Amendments -- Noel, M. Presumably related to this dust-up over HB 98 where Noel wants to further remove local control from counties. (Click on the Floor Debate audio file to hear his rant) Related to HB 400 yet another boxcar which Rolly references?
H.B. 464 State-Supported Voted Leeway Program Amendments -- Briscoe, J.
S.B. 4 Current School Year Supplemental Minimum School Program Budget Adjustments -- Buttars, D. C.
S.B. 78 Public School Early Graduation Counseling -- Buttars, D. C. Received text yesterday. Actually seems like an easy, good idea rather than eliminating 12th grade.
S.B. 163 School Restructuring -- Stephenson, H. Stephenson bragged on his radio show that this bill is intended to close down a set number of schools each year. No need to consult the teachers on this one, let alone the parents. Great candidate for a rushed debate.
S.B. 210 Utah Postsecondary Proprietary School Act Amendments -- Bramble, C. Received text yesterday. One of two or three bills Bramble is running about the regulation and taxation of private schools and training programs. I have no idea what these bills will do, but I smell a tax break for "economic development."
S.B. 217 Education Policy Amendments -- Bramble, C.
S.B. 224 Partisan School Board Elections -- Stephenson, H. Of course a "school board elections" bill run by the chair of the Senate Education Committee was not labeled education. Easy to miss this one.
S.B. 227 Student Based Funding for Public Education -- Liljenquist, D. "Backpack" funding. The PCE and charter lobbyists will hit hard for these pseudo-vouchers when this bill is unveiled in the near future.
S.B. 241 Tuition Waiver Amendments -- Hinkins, D.
S.B. 245 Higher Education Tuition Revisions -- Valentine, J.
S.B. 256 Teacher Effectiveness Evaluation Process -- Adams, J. S.
S.B. 263 State Board of Education Powers Amendments -- Buttars, D. C.
S.B. 265 State Charter School Board Modifications -- Madsen, M. Unnecessary due to SB 140?
S.B. 278 School District Modifications -- Bramble, C.
S.B. 292 Private Institutions of Higher Education -- Valentine, J.
S.B. 304 Bullying Amendments -- Okerlund, R.
S.B. 305 Economic Development Through Education / Career Alignment -- Stephenson, H. Stephenson's 2.5 to 8 million dollar career web app and chat room that will convince undergrads not to be dance majors. And of course, IBM developed this one-of-a-kind software prototype at his request (meaning no private company has seen promise in making a for-profit chat room developed around career information easily searchable for free already), but Senator Stephenson "doesn't know" if they would win a bid for this service. We have seen this before.
S.B. 316 Disclosure of State and Institutional Trust Lands Information -- Niederhauser, W.
I am 99% sure I have missed some boxcars or recently posted bills, but here are at least 36 education-related bills which have either not been posted for public viewing or only received their text in the last week. These last two weeks could get even uglier for education in what is already the worst session in recent memory...
Thursday, February 10, 2011
Virtual Vouchers bill, SB 65 by Howard Stephenson, passes committee -- My notes of the meeting
I posted about the "Virtual Voucher bill" a couple of weeks ago. I was able to listen to the committee hearing for the bill yesterday, which went much longer than I expected.
Committee hearings are the background nitty-gritty of the legislature where 95% of the meaningful debate and education about bills occurs. Fewer legislators are present; those legislators have more leeway to ask questions and read supporting evidence about the bills; they have been in that ongoing committee and usually have more background and expertise on the subject matter than the legislature as a whole; and the public is allowed to comment which usually brings in further expertise and perspective not possible in the stilted parliamentary procedure of the legislative floor meetings tightly controlled by the Senate President and Speaker of the House. The floor debate usually just repeats talking points as a matter of course, very rarely actually changing anyone's mind. In the majority of debates, everyone already knows if the bill will pass or fail before it is brought before the body.
So the committee hearings are the place to get good background and info about a proposed bill. You can listen to the audio of the Feb. 8, 2011 meeting of the Senate Education Committee here.
However, it is over 90 minutes long. My notes will probably take you 10-15 minutes to read and cover all of the main points. They are definitely not perfect and I especially apologize to anyone's name I butchered. I listened to the hearing live and just tried to keep up as I took notes. If anyone feels my summarization misrepresents what someone said, let me know and I'll go back and listen.
I inserted a few comments of my own as I typed and a couple afterward as I looked over the notes. They are in brackets. Realize that there are two senators with similar names on the Senate Education Committee. Howard Stephenson is the sponsor of the bill. Jerry Stevenson is another member of the committee. My shorthand for their names will make sense if you know that.
My notes:
[Annoying because starts late with no warning, missed first part of Sen. Stephenson's comments.]
Stephenson - Some book says high school families will demand better than current.
Claims 3 time teacher of the year John Taylor Gotto said NY schools were intentionally designed for mediocrity because business bosses were threatened by social mobility and need for labor. System hurts kids. We can learn from that. We can respect learning styles much better than before.
Current factory model puts 30 kids in a cubicle and one adult trying to pour knowledge uniformly into different minds. Howard Gardner, multiple intelligences, no bell curve of intelligence. More efficient to teach to middle, bore some, lose some. Instead 3-D bell that is impossible for one teacher to reach. We can now respect diff styles through online learning. Brain research shows that self-directed learning is more rapid and deep than otherwise. Research in seminars. Synapses of brain connect when we make a choice and become a permanent connection when we receive feedback if we are correct or incorrect. If no feedback, synapses withdraw as if connection were never made. We need to provide immediate interactive feedback. Piaget said anyone could be highly proficient in math and science with immediate feedback. [A teacher online with no class size limit cannot provide this. A software program can only provide concrete answers and can't help much with process. Writing software is a joke.] Today it can be provided by computer. Tech is available today, bit not in classroom. Lack of vision for using these modern tools.
This bill allows students to get online instruction. Online provider is paid 60% at beginning of course, and 40% when student tests proficient. [Multiple choice tests?? Given by provider? Or will CRT be test?] We're trying to scale this in a reasonable way and not just open floodgates because we don't know how many will apply. So 2 credits available ion first year and more each year until reach 6 credits. Portion paid up front and remainder as competency proven.
Niederhauser asks for more explanation of provisions of bill.
Steph -- Definitions on pg. 4. Pg. 5 purposes of the program. Pg. 6 Option to enroll and phased scaling of program so ultimately option for student to get all credit through online means. this doesn't take away from fact there are established online schools. They will have to compete with other providers. Those I’ve talked with welcome the competition be/c can provide for other students that only want 1 or 2 course rather than whole year. Requirement for online providers to be authorized by law, State Office of Ed. Must be certified by State Board. Standards for online course providers. Then payment process. 60% up front, rest as competencies are proven. pg. 9 Plan for payment also identified. Requirement for course credit to be recognized. Then administrative things. Then we want to require a report on online course providers so we have transparency who is performing. Make available to public to decide who they want. Rule making by State board of Ed. Legislature will review results as ongoing.
Niederhauser acting as chair-- About 15 public people to talk about bill.
Superintendent Shumway -- I'm a strong believer that direction of this bill is the right direction. I appreciate intentions of sponsor. Is their a fiscal note? Or do you have any idea what it might be?
Steph: Not yet. I don't think it will be significant b/c not new funding. Takes current funding of students in schools.
Shumway: I met w/ Sen. Stephenson prior to meeting and discussed bill a lot. Primary area I hope Stephenson will be open to change is phasing language. To provide time to deal with problems I didn't anticipate. There are many options for phasing. I really hope you will be open to that discussion before going to floor.
Steph: I'm open. Currently, it was meant to not open floodgates. Dr. Shumway suggested to me with another way of phasing it. Maybe start w/ few districts and few providers.
Shumway: As my staff and I, I see significant rule-making and monitoring and support necessary. I want to do it in way that doesn't constrain intention of the bill to provide more online opportunity but provide for quality.
J Stevenson - I don't like idea of limiting, but I see necessity of making it not a burden on dept. of ed.
Shumway: I spoke with staff. Long line of things to be resolved: FERPA, transfers, special ed. Not to throw down roadblocks, but to work together on implementation.
Steph: This bill puts burdens on board to plow new ground with rules. 2 ways to get publicly funded school now: Online high school at state office and charter schools. I'm hoping we can expand as drastically as possible these opportunities. I believe making them make rules respects their constitutional prerogative to make rules over education.
Ashley Hanson: Student at open high school - I really love this school. Teachers, activities, getting to know people. Teachers email me back in 10 min. I can see my grades easily. Nied: All courses online? Ashley: Yes: Nied: When? Ash: Most of day until about 3:00.
Mother and teacher: My son went to 9th grade charter school in N. Utah, New Aims school. Sounded great. Big problem in first week with bussing. The charter school had to bus students from certain distance b/c was public school. [This seems fishy to me. Charter schools don’t have to bus students now. Have they ever?] Was a hard issue. If this is a charter school, taking public funds, is school responsible to provide internet access, computers, laptops, etc.? What if student wants online class and can't use school computer lab? Will online high schools be responsible for internet access and computers with certain specifications?
J Stevenson: New Aims is by Davis District and very successful.
Mom: They fell under state laws that they didn't understand.
Leslie Phillips, mother and electronic high school 4-yr teacher, 20-yr teacher overall: Teachers at elec high school have been discussing strengths and weaknesses of bill. I brought handout and summary of our concerns. I think one of the keys to online ed working is relationship w/ schools. We have great relationship w/ schools b/c we don't charge them. they provide computers, admin and counseling support. We share curric. Aims and Granite using our curric. If you take us out of service role and put us in competition w/ districts and schools, will hurt support and mean fewer opps to students. Example. I teach English 12, half are juniors who want to grad early encouraged by counselors. Law says can't discourage, but provides incentives to not encourage. Rigor of curric will also suffer. I teach eng and class is tough. My 1st duty is to students. But bring in for profit orgs and their duty is to share holders. 16-yr-olds will choose between easy and quality. For profit will play to those consumers and water down curriculum.
J Stevenson - Sen Stephenson has expressed worries about completion rates. Reason for 60 up front, but 40 after. What is elec high school completion rate?
Leslie - I don't know. Principal is here, she can tell you.
Kathleen Webb, prin of elec high school: Depends what you mean. In some online environments, they don't count students until in for a month., count all grades, including F as completion. We have in past measured since day in class, and whether they receive a credit. From 20% to 50%. If count as other online high schools, our grad rate would be higher.
J Stev: H Steph, what is your definition of credit?
H Steph: Get a credit.
J Stev: Based on that, what is rate %?
Webb: I don't know grad rate. We don't track that. About 7,000 students received funding last year.
Stev: That's uncomfortable.
Nied: Do you want to speak? No. How are you funded then?
Webb: We're a line item in budget. We received 3,000 FTE's. All courses of all students adds up to about 600 full-time students.
Jackie Warren w/ 14-yr-old daughter: My 14-yr-old daughter is in 9th grade. 6th grade honors after home school. Skipped 7th grade and went to 8th. She is in 9th. Her counselor suggested she go to online ed b/c she is too advanced. She is very frustrated w/ education system. She has ideas how to better school system in USA.
Nied: She should be legislator. (Laughs)
Warren: She's on her way. She wants to be a JAG officer in Marine Corp and go into politics form there. She has issues in school b/c 12th grade reading and comprehension level. 9th and 11th grade students don't know the word sarcastic. These students don't belong in school system. They don't know meaning of redundant or sarcastic. When counselor comes to me, that your student is too advanced, so go to online system, after I came to USA from Australia, which was bad--So we need online b/c US system is screwed up and we should go for it. But current bill doesn't allow that.
Female - ______ Meyer student: We are not currently retaining enough knowledge. Onoine school will help retain better, help slower do well and advanced accelerate, we should do it.
Laura Belnap, Principal of Online school Washington District: online ed for 9 years, my kids have used elec high school and other things, purchased software. Online ed is a complement to traditional. Traditional school is all or nothing, no options. Need flexibility, esp in cash-strapped system. Wonderful Bountiful photography teacher cut b/c of funding. Could do online. Provides options, ed w/o boundaries, but stable parameters. Online ed is no longer cutting edge, is now mainstream and probably the future. Thanks Sen Stephenson.
Elaina Tonks, direc of Open High School, one of 2 online charter schools: Misperception--charter schools are public schools. I take many calls from parents wishing one or two classes, especially health and biology classes. Schedules make this hard. Many advanced students don't fit into factory ssetem. Many others want a slower pace. We can leverage tech promise and meet the needs of every single student. At our school, we focus on student as individual. We have choices in every phase of our life. Can choose Harmans over Smiths, cars, gas, etc. Students and parents deserve to have a say in how their child is educated. Students deserve access to best courses and teachers. We put our stakeholder's report in handout w/ grad rates, scores, etc.
Kelly Broadbent, parent of Open High School student, former teacher, board member of school: My son Nathan had stumbling blocks in last school. Needed diff approach. This school provided a teacher who can individualize instruction. Teachers are inventive and passionate. Exciting. No busty work, every assignment has purpose. [She is reading a sales pitch...She likes it, but brother.] Get skills not offered at school, slower or faster paced courses. This bill would allow more flexibility and best time of day and day of week. More opps to learn and grow.
Former superintendent, Patty Harrington: I represent self, not school boards assoc. today. - I also love tech. We don't have enough in public system. We need to improve. I love parts of this bill. An interim study of WPU funding. What about students who go to school and do online after and use more than 1 WPU? Like planned site to connect providers, including private providers. I have concerns. I want report, lines 270-284, about accountability of providers. Do we need districts to contract w/ private companies? Tracking requirements are laudable, but almost impossible. We need to look at it. Much is already happening. Elec high school, 2 charter schools Davis and Washington District we heard from. Private providers. Colleges provide. I have discussed with Steph frustration with credits from online schools not being accepted. This is a voucher bill giving public money to support private companies.
Some lady they know (UEA)? [Ends up being Sharon Gallagher-Fishbaugh]: Sen. Steph, appreciate passion for online ed and multiple intelligence. I heard in approp. committee this morning. Deaf and blind begging for money, K-3 reading begging, transportation begging. I'm concerned about money without funding basic program. Lines 260-267 = vouchers. Pay to private schools. Completion rates--what about students not completing? Would 60% already gone be returned to LEA's? WPU would be sent, my tax dollars out of state to online providers? No limits on class size. No way to monitor quality of services. In light of budget cuts, not expand a program when trying to keep basic, minimum services at this point.
Carry Valentine, parent: I heard this afternoon and raced down here. I have 3 students. 2 in school, Jr High and Elem. Fit public school mold. My other son is in Utah Virtual Academy and fits that mold very well. Would a student be enrolled concurrently in public and private school? We had to withdraw our son. That sounds like logistical nightmare to administer student in both. How would my tax dollars provide both? Would my tax dollars already increase? How divvy up? How is this different than what is already provided? Can purchase more or less privately. Parents provide $ currently, not public. In light of current budget situation, seems redundant to provide things already provided when cutting. Let's look at direction of public ed like universities. Provide online option along with classroom model.
Victor Shanti: Board qualified psychologist from U of U, parent of student both online charters, traditional schools, and private schools. My son was not being challenged, given false sense of compassion for African American student, low expectations. Machine didn't have that bias. 2 types. Machine ?'s and instantaneous feedback and person teaching via computer. He raised reading level in 6 months. Better expectations. Standards of proprietary schools not necessarily lower than public schools. Our school had high standards, tracking, success rate. I know there is a conflict between retention of employees which cost a lot. Leverage one employee through machines can save a lot of cost. We put him in charter school after machine learning, now he is not in lower quintile, but in middle range at traditional charter school. I favor bill and expansion of online ed.
Mother of 3 children in Utah Public system: I have read bill many times in last week. I am favor of online ed and all possible choices. There are legitimate concerns. This looks like system behind times and unnecessary. We already have quality online ed, not perfect, but offered and available. Current system works in conjunction with pub schools w/o competing for WPU's or other money. The limits would limit students making up credit initially. Current system allows. [Interrupted here] Something about limiting private and homeschool students.
This would open door to WPU going to private services by choice of student. I support choice, but not pub money going to private schools. Accounting would be confusing to districts, cause conflict. Stephenson says bill would allow choice. I think bill would hamper choice and complicate things. He also said $ to private entities. This is simply a voucher proposal.
Nied: Last 3 people allowed to speak.
Stan Rassmussen, Sutherland Inst. We support SB 65 to help families. Need customized and personalized ed. This describes online ed. Avoids other requirements of time or place. Allows parents primary control over education of children. Doesn't require parents to meet schools' terms. Not driven by adults. Student can take some online and some on site. Develop social skills while avoid social problems. Study found students in online schools as well socialized, and not significant differences in bad social behaviors. Focuses on student learning. Study shows discussion between teachers and parents is focused more on learning than trad schools.
Judi Clark, PCE director: We heard v-word thrown around with animosity. This is not voucher program. Several districts are using private providers already. That is a concern for establishment. Puts emphasis on individual needs and helps digital natives. We love that funding is extremely efficient. These precious dollars will go to provider of student choice. Rather than protect systems that are entrenched.
Person in red Shirt: David Salazar, student at OHSU, charter school: Me being able to work online. I only passed public school b/c teacher was sick of me b/c I was causing probs and ditching school. Now I can't do that. They notify parents right away when I don't finish work. Now I know computer tech, Skype. These teachers actually helped me. My other teachers wouldn't help me when I didn't put in the work. Better than public school. My teachers contact me every day and I get help right away.
Back to committee:
Sen. Thatcher - I think everyone understands that online is great for those who choose and can learn that way. My concern is how track completion online? I know some children do not have self-motivation to complete online. How know students actually getting ed we're paying for?
Sen. Stephenson - The tracking of completion rates under my bill would change current paradigm. Elec high school was uncertain how to define completion rates. Get paid for completion. Tracking will be pretty clear. I have confidence State Board will make good rules. Miss Gee [That’s what I heard…] from UEA wanted 60% back if student doesn't complete. I support that, but also for high schools. If students doesn't complete, then high school gives back money too. [choice people clap] That's answer to question.
Thatcher - If completion rate is so low? How educate?
Stephenson - Best to now pay 60% to allow staffing other things, etc. Future we can make it all dependent and refund all on completion.
Thatcher: People willing to educate on conditional basis?
Stephenson: Now online schools only get $2500 for WPU, when average student, including capital outlay, uses $8500. [DISHONEST use of numbers. Same as voucher debate. No school being built in Saratoga Springs has its locally bonded construction funds divvied up among the students of Utah. I don’t get the funding now. The online voucher kids will get more than the WPU??!] Providers want to compete. Only online school concerned is elec high school [Of two that testified]. They get a line item in budget. I supported online high school. Now it's time for them to get funded on merit. Students will start to review ratings of providers. They will check ratings about support, other things. Provides transparency for online education.
Thatcher - I'd love to see adjustment made in implementation timeline. Allow children to excel, move quickly, but balance burden on schools. I want you to continue to work with Superintendent Shumway.
J Stevenson - I like discussion today. This is direction of future. Knowing Steph will work with Sup. Shumway, I move this be passed to Senate floor.
Steph: Thanks for input. I will work with Sup. Shumway. I think some exceptions will be provided for students who thrive in this environment. Let them take more than 2 credits.
[I don’t think all classes can be transmitted and experienced online. English? History? Debate? Not same experience. The goal of college readiness will not be improved by online education, although it definitely has an important role. Relying on it to spend less $ on public education and make a philosophical voucher beachhead of transferring funds to private schools is the true goal here.]
Committee hearings are the background nitty-gritty of the legislature where 95% of the meaningful debate and education about bills occurs. Fewer legislators are present; those legislators have more leeway to ask questions and read supporting evidence about the bills; they have been in that ongoing committee and usually have more background and expertise on the subject matter than the legislature as a whole; and the public is allowed to comment which usually brings in further expertise and perspective not possible in the stilted parliamentary procedure of the legislative floor meetings tightly controlled by the Senate President and Speaker of the House. The floor debate usually just repeats talking points as a matter of course, very rarely actually changing anyone's mind. In the majority of debates, everyone already knows if the bill will pass or fail before it is brought before the body.
So the committee hearings are the place to get good background and info about a proposed bill. You can listen to the audio of the Feb. 8, 2011 meeting of the Senate Education Committee here.
However, it is over 90 minutes long. My notes will probably take you 10-15 minutes to read and cover all of the main points. They are definitely not perfect and I especially apologize to anyone's name I butchered. I listened to the hearing live and just tried to keep up as I took notes. If anyone feels my summarization misrepresents what someone said, let me know and I'll go back and listen.
I inserted a few comments of my own as I typed and a couple afterward as I looked over the notes. They are in brackets. Realize that there are two senators with similar names on the Senate Education Committee. Howard Stephenson is the sponsor of the bill. Jerry Stevenson is another member of the committee. My shorthand for their names will make sense if you know that.
My notes:
[Annoying because starts late with no warning, missed first part of Sen. Stephenson's comments.]
Stephenson - Some book says high school families will demand better than current.
Claims 3 time teacher of the year John Taylor Gotto said NY schools were intentionally designed for mediocrity because business bosses were threatened by social mobility and need for labor. System hurts kids. We can learn from that. We can respect learning styles much better than before.
Current factory model puts 30 kids in a cubicle and one adult trying to pour knowledge uniformly into different minds. Howard Gardner, multiple intelligences, no bell curve of intelligence. More efficient to teach to middle, bore some, lose some. Instead 3-D bell that is impossible for one teacher to reach. We can now respect diff styles through online learning. Brain research shows that self-directed learning is more rapid and deep than otherwise. Research in seminars. Synapses of brain connect when we make a choice and become a permanent connection when we receive feedback if we are correct or incorrect. If no feedback, synapses withdraw as if connection were never made. We need to provide immediate interactive feedback. Piaget said anyone could be highly proficient in math and science with immediate feedback. [A teacher online with no class size limit cannot provide this. A software program can only provide concrete answers and can't help much with process. Writing software is a joke.] Today it can be provided by computer. Tech is available today, bit not in classroom. Lack of vision for using these modern tools.
This bill allows students to get online instruction. Online provider is paid 60% at beginning of course, and 40% when student tests proficient. [Multiple choice tests?? Given by provider? Or will CRT be test?] We're trying to scale this in a reasonable way and not just open floodgates because we don't know how many will apply. So 2 credits available ion first year and more each year until reach 6 credits. Portion paid up front and remainder as competency proven.
Niederhauser asks for more explanation of provisions of bill.
Steph -- Definitions on pg. 4. Pg. 5 purposes of the program. Pg. 6 Option to enroll and phased scaling of program so ultimately option for student to get all credit through online means. this doesn't take away from fact there are established online schools. They will have to compete with other providers. Those I’ve talked with welcome the competition be/c can provide for other students that only want 1 or 2 course rather than whole year. Requirement for online providers to be authorized by law, State Office of Ed. Must be certified by State Board. Standards for online course providers. Then payment process. 60% up front, rest as competencies are proven. pg. 9 Plan for payment also identified. Requirement for course credit to be recognized. Then administrative things. Then we want to require a report on online course providers so we have transparency who is performing. Make available to public to decide who they want. Rule making by State board of Ed. Legislature will review results as ongoing.
Niederhauser acting as chair-- About 15 public people to talk about bill.
Superintendent Shumway -- I'm a strong believer that direction of this bill is the right direction. I appreciate intentions of sponsor. Is their a fiscal note? Or do you have any idea what it might be?
Steph: Not yet. I don't think it will be significant b/c not new funding. Takes current funding of students in schools.
Shumway: I met w/ Sen. Stephenson prior to meeting and discussed bill a lot. Primary area I hope Stephenson will be open to change is phasing language. To provide time to deal with problems I didn't anticipate. There are many options for phasing. I really hope you will be open to that discussion before going to floor.
Steph: I'm open. Currently, it was meant to not open floodgates. Dr. Shumway suggested to me with another way of phasing it. Maybe start w/ few districts and few providers.
Shumway: As my staff and I, I see significant rule-making and monitoring and support necessary. I want to do it in way that doesn't constrain intention of the bill to provide more online opportunity but provide for quality.
J Stevenson - I don't like idea of limiting, but I see necessity of making it not a burden on dept. of ed.
Shumway: I spoke with staff. Long line of things to be resolved: FERPA, transfers, special ed. Not to throw down roadblocks, but to work together on implementation.
Steph: This bill puts burdens on board to plow new ground with rules. 2 ways to get publicly funded school now: Online high school at state office and charter schools. I'm hoping we can expand as drastically as possible these opportunities. I believe making them make rules respects their constitutional prerogative to make rules over education.
Ashley Hanson: Student at open high school - I really love this school. Teachers, activities, getting to know people. Teachers email me back in 10 min. I can see my grades easily. Nied: All courses online? Ashley: Yes: Nied: When? Ash: Most of day until about 3:00.
Mother and teacher: My son went to 9th grade charter school in N. Utah, New Aims school. Sounded great. Big problem in first week with bussing. The charter school had to bus students from certain distance b/c was public school. [This seems fishy to me. Charter schools don’t have to bus students now. Have they ever?] Was a hard issue. If this is a charter school, taking public funds, is school responsible to provide internet access, computers, laptops, etc.? What if student wants online class and can't use school computer lab? Will online high schools be responsible for internet access and computers with certain specifications?
J Stevenson: New Aims is by Davis District and very successful.
Mom: They fell under state laws that they didn't understand.
Leslie Phillips, mother and electronic high school 4-yr teacher, 20-yr teacher overall: Teachers at elec high school have been discussing strengths and weaknesses of bill. I brought handout and summary of our concerns. I think one of the keys to online ed working is relationship w/ schools. We have great relationship w/ schools b/c we don't charge them. they provide computers, admin and counseling support. We share curric. Aims and Granite using our curric. If you take us out of service role and put us in competition w/ districts and schools, will hurt support and mean fewer opps to students. Example. I teach English 12, half are juniors who want to grad early encouraged by counselors. Law says can't discourage, but provides incentives to not encourage. Rigor of curric will also suffer. I teach eng and class is tough. My 1st duty is to students. But bring in for profit orgs and their duty is to share holders. 16-yr-olds will choose between easy and quality. For profit will play to those consumers and water down curriculum.
J Stevenson - Sen Stephenson has expressed worries about completion rates. Reason for 60 up front, but 40 after. What is elec high school completion rate?
Leslie - I don't know. Principal is here, she can tell you.
Kathleen Webb, prin of elec high school: Depends what you mean. In some online environments, they don't count students until in for a month., count all grades, including F as completion. We have in past measured since day in class, and whether they receive a credit. From 20% to 50%. If count as other online high schools, our grad rate would be higher.
J Stev: H Steph, what is your definition of credit?
H Steph: Get a credit.
J Stev: Based on that, what is rate %?
Webb: I don't know grad rate. We don't track that. About 7,000 students received funding last year.
Stev: That's uncomfortable.
Nied: Do you want to speak? No. How are you funded then?
Webb: We're a line item in budget. We received 3,000 FTE's. All courses of all students adds up to about 600 full-time students.
Jackie Warren w/ 14-yr-old daughter: My 14-yr-old daughter is in 9th grade. 6th grade honors after home school. Skipped 7th grade and went to 8th. She is in 9th. Her counselor suggested she go to online ed b/c she is too advanced. She is very frustrated w/ education system. She has ideas how to better school system in USA.
Nied: She should be legislator. (Laughs)
Warren: She's on her way. She wants to be a JAG officer in Marine Corp and go into politics form there. She has issues in school b/c 12th grade reading and comprehension level. 9th and 11th grade students don't know the word sarcastic. These students don't belong in school system. They don't know meaning of redundant or sarcastic. When counselor comes to me, that your student is too advanced, so go to online system, after I came to USA from Australia, which was bad--So we need online b/c US system is screwed up and we should go for it. But current bill doesn't allow that.
Female - ______ Meyer student: We are not currently retaining enough knowledge. Onoine school will help retain better, help slower do well and advanced accelerate, we should do it.
Laura Belnap, Principal of Online school Washington District: online ed for 9 years, my kids have used elec high school and other things, purchased software. Online ed is a complement to traditional. Traditional school is all or nothing, no options. Need flexibility, esp in cash-strapped system. Wonderful Bountiful photography teacher cut b/c of funding. Could do online. Provides options, ed w/o boundaries, but stable parameters. Online ed is no longer cutting edge, is now mainstream and probably the future. Thanks Sen Stephenson.
Elaina Tonks, direc of Open High School, one of 2 online charter schools: Misperception--charter schools are public schools. I take many calls from parents wishing one or two classes, especially health and biology classes. Schedules make this hard. Many advanced students don't fit into factory ssetem. Many others want a slower pace. We can leverage tech promise and meet the needs of every single student. At our school, we focus on student as individual. We have choices in every phase of our life. Can choose Harmans over Smiths, cars, gas, etc. Students and parents deserve to have a say in how their child is educated. Students deserve access to best courses and teachers. We put our stakeholder's report in handout w/ grad rates, scores, etc.
Kelly Broadbent, parent of Open High School student, former teacher, board member of school: My son Nathan had stumbling blocks in last school. Needed diff approach. This school provided a teacher who can individualize instruction. Teachers are inventive and passionate. Exciting. No busty work, every assignment has purpose. [She is reading a sales pitch...She likes it, but brother.] Get skills not offered at school, slower or faster paced courses. This bill would allow more flexibility and best time of day and day of week. More opps to learn and grow.
Former superintendent, Patty Harrington: I represent self, not school boards assoc. today. - I also love tech. We don't have enough in public system. We need to improve. I love parts of this bill. An interim study of WPU funding. What about students who go to school and do online after and use more than 1 WPU? Like planned site to connect providers, including private providers. I have concerns. I want report, lines 270-284, about accountability of providers. Do we need districts to contract w/ private companies? Tracking requirements are laudable, but almost impossible. We need to look at it. Much is already happening. Elec high school, 2 charter schools Davis and Washington District we heard from. Private providers. Colleges provide. I have discussed with Steph frustration with credits from online schools not being accepted. This is a voucher bill giving public money to support private companies.
Some lady they know (UEA)? [Ends up being Sharon Gallagher-Fishbaugh]: Sen. Steph, appreciate passion for online ed and multiple intelligence. I heard in approp. committee this morning. Deaf and blind begging for money, K-3 reading begging, transportation begging. I'm concerned about money without funding basic program. Lines 260-267 = vouchers. Pay to private schools. Completion rates--what about students not completing? Would 60% already gone be returned to LEA's? WPU would be sent, my tax dollars out of state to online providers? No limits on class size. No way to monitor quality of services. In light of budget cuts, not expand a program when trying to keep basic, minimum services at this point.
Carry Valentine, parent: I heard this afternoon and raced down here. I have 3 students. 2 in school, Jr High and Elem. Fit public school mold. My other son is in Utah Virtual Academy and fits that mold very well. Would a student be enrolled concurrently in public and private school? We had to withdraw our son. That sounds like logistical nightmare to administer student in both. How would my tax dollars provide both? Would my tax dollars already increase? How divvy up? How is this different than what is already provided? Can purchase more or less privately. Parents provide $ currently, not public. In light of current budget situation, seems redundant to provide things already provided when cutting. Let's look at direction of public ed like universities. Provide online option along with classroom model.
Victor Shanti: Board qualified psychologist from U of U, parent of student both online charters, traditional schools, and private schools. My son was not being challenged, given false sense of compassion for African American student, low expectations. Machine didn't have that bias. 2 types. Machine ?'s and instantaneous feedback and person teaching via computer. He raised reading level in 6 months. Better expectations. Standards of proprietary schools not necessarily lower than public schools. Our school had high standards, tracking, success rate. I know there is a conflict between retention of employees which cost a lot. Leverage one employee through machines can save a lot of cost. We put him in charter school after machine learning, now he is not in lower quintile, but in middle range at traditional charter school. I favor bill and expansion of online ed.
Mother of 3 children in Utah Public system: I have read bill many times in last week. I am favor of online ed and all possible choices. There are legitimate concerns. This looks like system behind times and unnecessary. We already have quality online ed, not perfect, but offered and available. Current system works in conjunction with pub schools w/o competing for WPU's or other money. The limits would limit students making up credit initially. Current system allows. [Interrupted here] Something about limiting private and homeschool students.
This would open door to WPU going to private services by choice of student. I support choice, but not pub money going to private schools. Accounting would be confusing to districts, cause conflict. Stephenson says bill would allow choice. I think bill would hamper choice and complicate things. He also said $ to private entities. This is simply a voucher proposal.
Nied: Last 3 people allowed to speak.
Stan Rassmussen, Sutherland Inst. We support SB 65 to help families. Need customized and personalized ed. This describes online ed. Avoids other requirements of time or place. Allows parents primary control over education of children. Doesn't require parents to meet schools' terms. Not driven by adults. Student can take some online and some on site. Develop social skills while avoid social problems. Study found students in online schools as well socialized, and not significant differences in bad social behaviors. Focuses on student learning. Study shows discussion between teachers and parents is focused more on learning than trad schools.
Judi Clark, PCE director: We heard v-word thrown around with animosity. This is not voucher program. Several districts are using private providers already. That is a concern for establishment. Puts emphasis on individual needs and helps digital natives. We love that funding is extremely efficient. These precious dollars will go to provider of student choice. Rather than protect systems that are entrenched.
Person in red Shirt: David Salazar, student at OHSU, charter school: Me being able to work online. I only passed public school b/c teacher was sick of me b/c I was causing probs and ditching school. Now I can't do that. They notify parents right away when I don't finish work. Now I know computer tech, Skype. These teachers actually helped me. My other teachers wouldn't help me when I didn't put in the work. Better than public school. My teachers contact me every day and I get help right away.
Back to committee:
Sen. Thatcher - I think everyone understands that online is great for those who choose and can learn that way. My concern is how track completion online? I know some children do not have self-motivation to complete online. How know students actually getting ed we're paying for?
Sen. Stephenson - The tracking of completion rates under my bill would change current paradigm. Elec high school was uncertain how to define completion rates. Get paid for completion. Tracking will be pretty clear. I have confidence State Board will make good rules. Miss Gee [That’s what I heard…] from UEA wanted 60% back if student doesn't complete. I support that, but also for high schools. If students doesn't complete, then high school gives back money too. [choice people clap] That's answer to question.
Thatcher - If completion rate is so low? How educate?
Stephenson - Best to now pay 60% to allow staffing other things, etc. Future we can make it all dependent and refund all on completion.
Thatcher: People willing to educate on conditional basis?
Stephenson: Now online schools only get $2500 for WPU, when average student, including capital outlay, uses $8500. [DISHONEST use of numbers. Same as voucher debate. No school being built in Saratoga Springs has its locally bonded construction funds divvied up among the students of Utah. I don’t get the funding now. The online voucher kids will get more than the WPU??!] Providers want to compete. Only online school concerned is elec high school [Of two that testified]. They get a line item in budget. I supported online high school. Now it's time for them to get funded on merit. Students will start to review ratings of providers. They will check ratings about support, other things. Provides transparency for online education.
Thatcher - I'd love to see adjustment made in implementation timeline. Allow children to excel, move quickly, but balance burden on schools. I want you to continue to work with Superintendent Shumway.
J Stevenson - I like discussion today. This is direction of future. Knowing Steph will work with Sup. Shumway, I move this be passed to Senate floor.
Steph: Thanks for input. I will work with Sup. Shumway. I think some exceptions will be provided for students who thrive in this environment. Let them take more than 2 credits.
[I don’t think all classes can be transmitted and experienced online. English? History? Debate? Not same experience. The goal of college readiness will not be improved by online education, although it definitely has an important role. Relying on it to spend less $ on public education and make a philosophical voucher beachhead of transferring funds to private schools is the true goal here.]
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